Why would anyone talk to the NTSB?
11-03-2009, 10:36 PM
#22
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by sailingfun
On the subject of the role of the company, FAA and NTSB in actual accident investigations I can tell you that you have the priorities wrong. With the company and FAA the number one priority is reduce our legal liability. The 2nd priority is reduce our legal liability. The actual truth and cause of the accident are way down the priority list. The NTSB is supposed to be neutral and seek the cause of the accident. In reality they come under enormous pressure from the Airline, aircraft builder, FAA and any other party that might get sued. The pressure? Reduce our legal liability. If you seeing a trend here you will start to understand the process.
For those of you who havent watched a full public hearing on a crash, I strongly suggest you take the time to watch one. The first three players: the company, the aircraft manufacturer, and the FAA. The company says our system is blessed by the FAA, so it isn't our fault. The manufacturer says, the FAA certified the plane, so it isn't our fault. ANd the FAA says, we are the government, we are never at fault.
IF the pilots were union or have the money for a private lawyer, only then do they get representation. And since the other three already have an out, guess who must prove their innocence?
11-07-2009, 04:03 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 273
Just to emphasize on the original point even more. The NTSB did this with the Buffalo crash as well.
Was there any need for the full uncensored version of the CVR to be made public the way it was made? They could have cut the convo where it wasn't needed to make the point.
They defamed two pilots who were already dead and had enough bad rap as it is. What they did is nothing short than spitting on someone's grave.
Was there any need for the full uncensored version of the CVR to be made public the way it was made? They could have cut the convo where it wasn't needed to make the point.
They defamed two pilots who were already dead and had enough bad rap as it is. What they did is nothing short than spitting on someone's grave.
11-11-2009, 05:05 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 555
I agree. The NTSB in the Buffalo crash was making speculative comments about ice as being a possible cause three days after the crash. They had no idea and had no business making those sorts of speculaive comments. Those types of comments are better left to the office chair type rated newscasters. There seems to be a shift in modus operandi regarding public announcements at the NTSB recently, and it's doing exactly what we thought. Pilots are now afraid to speak with the one group that at one point represented safety.
11-11-2009, 10:20 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 338
I too am concerned about the release of recordings and statements by the NTSB. I thought CVR tapes were not be released, and releasing the statements before the INITIAL INVESTIGATION is hardly begun won't promote cooperation. If the NTSB wants us to help them promote safety, they ought to at least make us think they're impartial. Robert Sumwalt, retired USAir pilot and member of the NTSB is no friend of ours. If I didn't know better, I'd think he's got a personal vendetta against airline pilots.
11-11-2009, 10:35 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
In any accident investigation, you know each group's role. The company is looking to improve safety, but they also are looking at discipline issues. The FAA is looking to improve safety, but they also are looking at certificate issues. The NTSB, they are supposed to be Switzerland. They have no other role but to improve safety, they don't care about discipline or certificate issues.
You know that you can tell the NTSB anything and it will only be used for one thing: to enhance safety. Spill your guts, tell all your secrets, be totally honest.
Well at least that's how it used to be. The ink wasn't even dry on the statements of the NWA 188 pilots before the NTSB goes blabbing to everyone who will listen. I thought this was supposed to be a safety investigation and not another episode of Jon and Kate + 8. How did the NTSB's actions do ANYTHING to improve flight safety?
I don't want to argue about the aircrew's actions or inactions, that has been beat to death.
What I would like to know is why anyone would want to talk to them ever again? If the NTSB will publish my statement whenever they feel like it, shouldn't I just say, "Hey, talk to my lawyer, and then leave the room."
This is either a monumental blunder on the part of the NTSB, or they have decided that they want to just examine bent pieces of metal and write off any input from pilots. I don't trust them now and I will not trust them until they either fix this mess or until Congress puts laws in place to tie their hands.
I am wondering if anyone else feels the same way.
You know that you can tell the NTSB anything and it will only be used for one thing: to enhance safety. Spill your guts, tell all your secrets, be totally honest.
Well at least that's how it used to be. The ink wasn't even dry on the statements of the NWA 188 pilots before the NTSB goes blabbing to everyone who will listen. I thought this was supposed to be a safety investigation and not another episode of Jon and Kate + 8. How did the NTSB's actions do ANYTHING to improve flight safety?
I don't want to argue about the aircrew's actions or inactions, that has been beat to death.
What I would like to know is why anyone would want to talk to them ever again? If the NTSB will publish my statement whenever they feel like it, shouldn't I just say, "Hey, talk to my lawyer, and then leave the room."
This is either a monumental blunder on the part of the NTSB, or they have decided that they want to just examine bent pieces of metal and write off any input from pilots. I don't trust them now and I will not trust them until they either fix this mess or until Congress puts laws in place to tie their hands.
I am wondering if anyone else feels the same way.
11-11-2009, 11:27 AM
#29
Bourgeoisie
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 616
Originally Posted by Climbto450
The FAA has always been able to prosecute pilots with NTSB reports. They just recently started to do it. The bottom line is don't talk to the government without representation.
11-11-2009, 01:46 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Originally Posted by MEMFO4Ever
I would take this a step further and say "don't talk to the government." They cannot physically compel you to say anything and if you do not say anything then you will never lie. Being uncoopertive can be an effective defense, especially if the they have little or no physical evidence or testimony.
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