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-   -   Crandal's Input on DOT Panel (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/45854-crandals-input-dot-panel.html)

Splanky 11-17-2009 08:32 AM

Crandal's Input on DOT Panel
 
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener.../REG111709.xml

I actually agree with this article. Hmmm.

Ziggy 11-17-2009 11:34 AM

Good article, now lets see what happens.

757upspilot 11-17-2009 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by Splanky (Post 713012)
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener.../REG111709.xml

I actually agree with this article. Hmmm.

Crandal isn't my favorite airline exec but he did run a successful airline which is more than 99% of the current bunch can claim. Worth the time to read his input.

DAL4EVER 11-17-2009 02:15 PM

Kudos to Crandall.

Now let's see how serious our government is about this.

Josephus 11-17-2009 07:52 PM

As usual, big, far reaching platitudes like this sound good... but the devil is in the details.

If men were angels, we might be able to trust them to come up with a plan that would benefit all of us (pubilc, corp, workforce). But as history should have taught us, politicians will use their power to help specific groups (or themselves).

That speaks to man's motives... but not to his abbilities. And man is not God, he is not omniscient (sp?).

Even if government did come up with a plan that seemed palatable to everyone (public, corp, workforce), there is no reason to believe that it would be the best or most profitable plan. Again, history should inform us that it most probably would not be.

I would much more trust Adam Smith's "Invisible hand" of economics to fix the problems with the industry rather than Robert Crandle's very visible hand of government.

Splanky 11-17-2009 09:24 PM


Originally Posted by Josephus (Post 713410)
As usual, big, far reaching platitudes like this sound good... but the devil is in the details.

If men were angels, we might be able to trust them to come up with a plan that would benefit all of us (pubilc, corp, workforce). But as history should have taught us, politicians will use their power to help specific groups (or themselves).

That speaks to man's motives... but not to his abbilities. And man is not God, he is not omniscient (sp?).

Even if government did come up with a plan that seemed palatable to everyone (public, corp, workforce), there is no reason to believe that it would be the best or most profitable plan. Again, history should inform us that it most probably would not be.

I would much more trust Adam Smith's "Invisible hand" of economics to fix the problems with the industry rather than Robert Crandle's very visible hand of government.

? We do the best within our abilities and knowledge. Of course any solution man is going to find will be imperfect. No harm in trying though.

Prior to working in this industry, I trusted market forces to work things out and find the best solutions. However, market forces only work if a few things are present:
1) Those in charge actually have motivation to see the company have long term success. Current money-chasers in charge are only seeking the next metric in their bonus scheme.
2) The government is either all in or all out. The government has and will continue to muddle around in airlines too much for the market to correct inefficiencies and problems.

tomgoodman 11-17-2009 09:25 PM

Easy for him to say--now
 

Originally Posted by Josephus (Post 713410)
As usual, big, far reaching platitudes like this sound good...

Yes, and this one:


Should our airlines provide well-paid jobs and a secure career for the men and women who service the public at airports, and fly and maintain the aircraft we travel on? ....
is also ironic, coming from the architect of the draconian B-scale at AMR (50% pay cut from the existing rate, never merging to A-scale), which he obtained by threatening to outsource flying. Crandall was a major player in the "race for the bottom", and I doubt that he has repented.

likeitis 11-18-2009 04:26 AM


Originally Posted by Splanky (Post 713442)
? We do the best within our abilities and knowledge. Of course any solution man is going to find will be imperfect. No harm in trying though.

Prior to working in this industry, I trusted market forces to work things out and find the best solutions. However, market forces only work if a few things are present:
1) Those in charge actually have motivation to see the company have long term success. Current money-chasers in charge are only seeking the next metric in their bonus scheme.
2) The government is either all in or all out. The government has and will continue to muddle around in airlines too much for the market to correct inefficiencies and problems.

3) The first requirement of capitalism is that the parties are ethical. Many of our problems across all areas and especially Wall street is the completely failure of ethics in those in position of leadership. Truth is definitely stranger than fiction when you have some idiot on Wall street claiming to do the work of god. There are many things that I can do with an aircraft that are perfectly legal but extremely stupid. It appears that these leaders never learn the difference.

jonnyjetprop 11-18-2009 04:50 AM

Tom,

You beat me to it. It's funny that some would be happy that Bob Crandall is putting in his two cents. Is it that the industry has gone that far or are we not teaching airline history at the Delta Connection Academy? I think that we should have Frank weigh in on the discussion too. :rolleyes:



Originally Posted by tomgoodman (Post 713443)
Yes, and this one:



is also ironic, coming from the architect of the draconian B-scale at AMR (50% pay cut from the existing rate, never merging to A-scale), which he obtained by threatening to outsource flying. Crandall was a major player in the "race for the bottom", and I doubt that he has repented.


Fritzthepilot 11-18-2009 05:13 AM


Originally Posted by likeitis (Post 713483)
3) The first requirement of capitalism is that the parties are ethical. Many of our problems across all areas and especially Wall street is the completely failure of ethics in those in position of leadership. Truth is definitely stranger than fiction when you have some idiot on Wall street claiming to do the work of god. There are many things that I can do with an aircraft that are perfectly legal but extremely stupid. It appears that these leaders never learn the difference.

Well, the cow's outta the barn on this one. Here is a couple of Q&A's with Jeff Shane, who is negotiating Open Skies for the Dept. of State. To read the full story, go to Agenda For Freedom

8. Rather than liberalizing the industry, would it not just be better to re-
regulate?

• The de-regulation process started three decades ago. Consumers have
benefited from the resulting competition with lower fares and greater access to
travel than ever before.
• The policy of deregulation was left half-finished. International aviation is still
regulated by outdated restrictions on ownership and access to capital and
markets that no other industry faces.
• The result of these restrictions is a fragmented industry that cannot recover its
cost of capital. Re-regulating the industry would reverse the positive impact of
greater accessibility to consumers and will still leave airlines without the tools
needed to build global businesses that are financially sustainable.


9. What will the impact of liberalization be on jobs?

• Agenda for Freedom is about moving away from a regulatory system in which
flags and government agreements determine the scope of an airline’s business.
To be financially sustainable, the airline industry must be free to run on the basis
of good global business. Anything that helps the financially sustainability of a
company also helps to ensure stable employment. The current model
(insufficiently liberalized) obviously does not.

10. What will be the impact of the Principles on consumers?

• Consumers benefit from liberal markets. Look at what has happened in the
wireless telecoms industry. Global businesses have developed around global
brands. The industry is intensely competitive and access to wireless
communications is greater than ever. Building an industry on the principles of
liberalized access to capital and markets without ownership restrictions is good
policy serving equally the interest of consumers and businesses.


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