Could DL get JAL Cargo? They are selling...
 

Looks like NCA (Nippon Air Cargo) may not like the terms for JAL Cargo and their 744Fs. If they decide to not buy, could Delta walk in and help out? JAL obviously wants out of that business. I know DL/NWA just dumped the ANC ops, but I think that was becuase we had older 742s, not newer, more fuel efficient 744Fs. Here is the article.



UPDATE 1-JAL, Nippon Yusen air cargo talks hit snag - Nikkei
Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:18pm ESTStocks


Jan 29 (Reuters) - The talks for the merger of air cargo operations of ailing Japan Airlines Corp (9205.T) and Nippon Yusen KK (9101.T) have reached an impasse over the basic framework of the deal, the Nikkei business daily reported.

In August last year, the two companies had agreed to combine their air cargo businesses by April 2010.

The plan called for JAL to spin off cargo operations, which would then be absorbed by Nippon Yusen unit Nippon Cargo Airlines Co. Nippon Yusen was to own a 50 to 60 percent interest in the new entity, with JAL holding the rest, Nikkei reported.

After JAL filed for bankruptcy protection last week, the state-backed Enterprise Turnaround Initiative Corp (ETIC) of Japan sought to sell off the cargo business or keep JAL's stake in the merged company to a minimum, the newspaper said.

"Doing so would remove the cargo operation's aircraft and roughly 3,000 employees from the balance sheet. The segment has been logging an operating loss of more than 20 billion yen a year," the Nikkei reported.

ETIC is overseeing JAL's reorganization.

The daily said Nippon Yusen opposes taking on the additional personnel, and quoted a senior executive saying that "the talks may be broken off". (Reporting by Ashutosh Joshi in Bangalore; Editing by Gopakumar Warrier)

We need to do something with that cargo facility in LAX......



http://www.seoconsultants.com/just-s...o-idea-480.gif

They've got 763F's as well.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../3/1633388.jpg

Wikipedia shows this about JAL Cargo:




Cargo

JAL Cargo fleet (as of 30 December 2009 (2009 -12-30)[update])[81] Aircraft Total Maximum payload
Boeing 747-400BCF 4 113,489 kg (250,200 lb)[87]
Boeing 747-400F 2 112,630 kg (248,300 lb)[88]
Boeing 767-300ERF 3 53,660 kg (118,300 lb)[89]

Total 9

Lots of things developing in the near future in terms of alliances here in Japan, stay tuned.

I think that would deter me from buying if I were in the market......

If NCA continues to balk, we might take a look at it, if the terms are good, IMO. NCA really just wants to get rid of a competitor, and we fly the same planes as JAL Cargo does. Maybe JAL will offer it. We shut down our Cargo Ops because we didn't have the right planes to fly it at the time. And, KLM and Air France both have cargo units, even after the worldwide recession.

To continue that thought process......

AF/KLM has a lot of big cargo jets that they need to fill to pay the bills, ergo they may be the ones doing the Loin's Share of the cargo lift, not us.

Hopefully if this happened, those planes would end up being flown by Delta pilots. It sure would be sad to have gone from last year having a large in-house cargo division to this year having a "joint venture" "codeshare" "outsourced" cargo division flying the same routes and the same cargo with pilots who aren't even from North America.

The reason I make that point is simple. I have heard it stated many times that AF and KLM have dedicated Cargo outfits that need cargo. We do not, so it only makes sense to direct that towards them. Not my choice I remind you, but the probably business decision.
Personally, I would love to see us flying around any cargo birds.

Do AF and KLM have 5th freedom rights to fly Cargo flights? I seem to recall we have plenty of NWA Cargo slots that are now unused. I would bet FDX and UPS might balk at AF and KLM starting NRT to LAX/ANC/SFO/JFK/ORD flights, and could throw a wrench in that process. NCA and JAL Cargo are the only 2 Japanese airlines allowed to do that, and then FDX, UPS, and NWA Cargo had the other slots.

FDX does, thanks to its purchase of Flying Tigers.

For those unfamiliar with the history of cargo flying and combi aircraft, AF/KL liked to fly Combi pax/freighter AC on many routes.

The problem that NW had was in the USA, the FAA would not certify a combi unless the Freight section was forward and the pax section was aft. Something that market research showed was not favorably received by passengers?

KLM got European certification with pax forward and freight aft on some of their 747s (-300s if my memory is correct).

Not sure if RA would be interested in another pure cargo operation, but I guess he would at least entertain some sort of combi operation that had better revenue numbers on thin routes.

They can balk, but Open Skies will nullify the Firth Freedom rights. That is the main reason that a JV with JAL is oh so important.

I think I stated that. Other than NCA and JAL Cargo, only NWA Cargo and FDX can do it. I am not sure about UPS, but I bet they can too.

You can have open skies, but what about landing slots? Not everyone can get in. And that Open Skies has really opened up Haneda, not. It is all about the slots.

Agreed, but boxes do not care about the truck ride from NRT to down town, ppl do. Point is that Open-Skies will open the Fifth Freedom rights completely for Cargo. The protectionist elements of the Open Skies pack in regards to Haneda will have little effect on curbing many carriers to operate their Cargo OPS they see fit, ala AF/KLM.

To answer the original question
 

It will never happen.

It is not that simple, if you think that there aren't negotiations so that other Japanese companies take advantage of the available business you guys are dreaming. The slots at NRT are just as tight to get as the slots at HND, KIX. I wouldn't be bidding for trips just yet

I agree,,,,,,!

I'd submit that several of those 744Fs and BCFs will end up in Kalitta colors before too long. Connie is currently shopping for airframes and he has a suitcase full of cash :D

Kalitta - worst paint ever.

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As to the combi 744s, KLM flew them to IAH and I believe still do. I remember seeing the cargo door open in the early to mid 2000s. Note the cargo door behind the 4L door in this IAH picture. But it was AF 744 that had horse meat loaded in it. I could've gone without knowing that tidbit.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../3/0807311.jpg

True dat....


Lufthansa also has some 744 Combis, saw one last week in Frankfurt.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...7-430M/0769512

Generally speaking, combis are a neat idea for niche markets, but they are typically ineffeceint, they are neither a good pax platform (noisy) and have cabin differences, and they are not typically good freighters, as they (usually) have awkward cube/pallet contour restrictions because of pax support units and interior equipment that remains installed in the freighter configuration. They also usually have a significantly higher ZFW than a straight freighter, yielding less payload for the customer.

That's what Arpey said at AA about JAL leaving OneWorld. ANA (and Air Japan) won't get free reign, that is for sure. I am sure you will be seeing a lot more of Delta in Japan in the future. Get used to it.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...g/00012307.jpg

Posted this on the L&G thread, but figured it fits in here just as well or better.

I think the C-141 is more Delta style given that its cheap to buy now. Might break a wing on the ramp but thats why its cheap to buy, comes with the territory.

Let me see here... if I hit that... ignore that... allow that... CTRL + V this... yep, largest picture ever on airlinepilotforums...
http://www.alltechn.com/wp-content/i...-Airlines1.jpg

Funny how these pukes think that because they might code share with somebody they may get their jets and routes too.

I was going to suggest the thread name be changed to delusions of grandeur, except that I might have to beg them for a job some day.

To this comment I have to say BRAVO! they didn't take their billion and instead they went ahead and did a code share agreement, now some of this (I'm not going to go as far as to call them pukes but rather naive individuals) folks think that they will sell them their cargo division. All of this mental masturbation has been very entertaining
:D

Oh geez. :rolleyes:

Alright take a deep breath, don't type anything, don't be jealous :D and just keep reading because you might actually understand the context of the discussion in light of what is going on here with this possible hookup and seperate rumors concerning cargo. FWIW, we've been talking about returning to cargo and it was not with JAL planes or 744Fs fwiw, but could it be now? Hence the discussion. So just take it easy and appreciate the humor. Its really good stuff.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e8...renchTaunt.gif

Ummmm, I'm pretty sure the OP simply asked if one thought Delta would buy the JAL Cargo Op. I don't think that is assuming that DAL pilots would get JAL jets due to the codeshare. :rolleyes:

JAL has not entered a Codeshare agreement with DAL. JAL hasn't even left OneWorld Alliance yet. If you guys are going to call people naive, you may want to make sure you have the facts before you start doing so. :rolleyes:

Hence the word "might" in the post above.