forgot to bid

Seems like throughout this forum there is a desire for a constructive conversation from pilots to pilots about what should be done (politically, regulatory, contractually) to deal with the major issues affecting the airline industry and more specifically the legacy airline pilots career path.

The problem is too often the conversations begin in threads that start with a bias or condescending poke in the eye. So here is a thread with a neutral start and dedicated to what you personally believe is a problem and what your solutions are. So feel free to put them out here whether they are just off the top of your head or well thought out and lets discuss them on the merits.

For those of you who read APC but don't post, here is an open invitation to you to get your cool name and avatar idea out of your head and on to your screen and jump in to the mix.

Remember the forum rules and remember we will judge you based upon your grammar, spelling, ideas and words.

Ziggy

Personally I don't think much can be done right now. As an industry we probably need to focus on education, mentoring, and networking. This will hopefully close that gaps that have opened within the aviation community. We have all been affected one way or another by this economy, industry, and other events. We need to realize that we're in a state of flux and need to let the dust settle. Once companies and individuals feel prosporous again, then we can take other steps to continue inproving the circumstances.

forgot to bid

I believe we should lower Part 135 PIC minimums by half for cargo only operations in aircraft with a max payload of 1700lbs or less (PA34, B58, C310, Queen Air, C210, etc) if the aircraft is operated with two pilots.

The reason being is if we were to require a minimum of an ATP to be hired at any Part 121 carrier then we must accept the fact that one day people will be hired with ATP minimums and therefore the notion that they'd flycargo to build time would be extremely unlikely. ATP minimums at 1500TT (+other stuff) and Part 135 minimums for B58 are 1200TT. Most cargo operators do not hire SICs, its all single-pilot. Knock down minimums from 1200TT to 600TT (and the other requirements in half) as long as its a two pilot operation.

Cargo operators would balk at the idea of paying two pilots over just paying one so to me so split 1 single-pilot pay into two. Its more pay then most guys would make as a CFI. For these operators they'd know they'd have these pilots from 600TT to 1500TT or probably at least 1.5 years.

I think this should be done anyways and definately think it should be done if an ATP becomes mandatory for all Part 121.

Ziggy

Those are great ideas. Problem there is the FAA and the regulations. I'm sure all of us could quote reg's and incidences with the FAA that need to be changed. Unfortuately, it's not within view of the current administration, unions, or other pilots groups to demand those reviews. (To many other issues). I do agree that each reg probably needs to be reviewed and revised to meet the challenges of today. Also the FAA itself needs an overhal.

mwa1

it will shake out to providing just enough service that can be supported at that future fare level w/o gov't interference of course. iow leave it alone.

acl65pilot

FtB;

No one seems to like the Board Certification idea. The biggest issue to day both on the company side and the pilot side is:

Very low barriers to entry.

acl65pilot

I like the notion of allowing ppl every opportunity to kill themselves and thin the herd prior to carrying poor unsuspecting grandma, but the little ab initio deal would have to go, or it is just eyewash.

forgot to bid

Actually, the FAA reauthorization bill is about to hit the floor of the Senate and change a lot of FARs. Its got bi-partisan support and the full support of the families of Colgan 3407. The current FAA bill is set to expire March 31.

Its going to raise pilot training standards, set requirements for airline remedial training programs, mandate ASAP programs, allow airlines to have complete access to flight records of potential pilots, boost inspections of flight schools and airline training centers, independent studies on pilot fatigue and changes to ticketing to more clearly identify when a regional carrier will be operating the flight on behalf of the mainline carrier and

Also, there is an amendment on the Senate bill to add the ATP requirement for all Part 121 pilots, matching the House bill.

Schumer said he feels as if the bill is in good shape to pass. The airline industry is against the rule changes saying that the quality of training should trump pilot experience minimums. I agree with that but said training should be far stricter then current systems and standards the FAA allows.

Schumer has been pushing the bill and it sounds like Reid is going to bypass mark up and take it to the floor to keep it moving with the safety measures intact. Its been bottled up behind the health care bill and they said they thought they may tack it on to a jobs bill but now they won't do that. They want it to move. If it passes they'll put it in conference and I bet the safety measures will not be stripped.

So I'd say things are indeed about to change.

http://www.empirestatenews.net/News/20100212-1.html
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/953451.html
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/952220.html
http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story...provider=gnews

Onfinal

Good and well needed thread. Here's my take:

On Experience:

First of all arbitrary, subjective issues and terms like "experience", "flight hours", "minimums" are doomed to failure. They simply cannot be defended when the macro snapshot will prove that 99.9999% of flights takeoff, cruise, and land safely irrespective of who is at the controls.

On NMB:

The federal government has ignored the impact that the RLA has had on Pilot's ability to negotiate fair compensation. In addition, it is clear that the federal government would rather not get involved in that discussion because its primary goal is to "keep the trains running". The RLA in itself is not bad legislation but airline management has, over the years, determined how to circumvent the intent and spirit of the legislation. Kind of like how criminals eventually find new ways of breaking the law, therefore laws have to be changed and updated. Ladies and Gentlemen the Federal government has not, and will not address the weaknesses of the RLA until forced to do so.

On Unions and Organizing:

ALPA, APA, et al are hog tied because any action outside of the RLA will land the leadership in jail. Hence the need for a separate association that is focused on the improvement of airline workers but is not a labor union. Note that just about every other industry, non-profit, etc has several vociferous organizations lobby congress in their favor, and are able to distribute the marching orders thru them. But we as pilots are satisfied to lean on our unions to do all the work.

On Politics:

Pilots are notoriously right-wing. I don't care what your politics are but, if the right wing knows you'll vote for them no matter what, they are not going to do anything for you. In the same way, if the left wing knows you're not going to vote for them no matter what, then they're not going to do anything for you. So you end up with NOTHING. I don't care who the Union supported. Business people support only those who are going to do something for them, we should get informed and do the same.

In a nutshell:

1) We need to coalesce around a non-union grassroots organization that will lobby government officials for all pilots and other airline employees. And provide information and marching orders to the membership.

2) We to demand an update to the RLA that will eliminate outsourcing (a violation of the intent and spirit of the original legislation). Stop being so politically incompetent. Work with those who will work with you, vote for those who will stand with you.

3) Mainline pilots need to insist (means non-negotiable) on their next negotiation cycle a single contract for all lines of flying including RJ and Turboprop and staple their RJ and Turboprop contractors to the bottom of their lists.

There ya go. Three very difficult things to do. But if it isn't difficult it probably isn't very rewarding.

Onfinal

forgot to bid

Ah, I hate to ask, is the Board Certification idea the ATP minimum requirement?

If we want to thin the herds we should require folks to fly cargo in the north in Cessna Caravans.

I know there are <500 hr pilots that passed training on RJs on their first try. Personally I just remember my first checkride sign off as a CFI/CFII was for a 20 year old kid to get his instrument rating. I was 19 and just passed the 300 hour range. I think if kids can do that then the two of us when we had 600 hours could surely go fly a B58 together in any weather and on any mission- it'd been fun ACL! Right up til I fell asleep or passed gas. Sorry man. Its unpressurized.