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Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob
(Post 774374)
I always figured that it ws because DL had 73 rates and no Airbus rates. NW had Airbus rates and no 73 rates. When the two contracts were mashed together, that's how it turned out. Did we really want to start negotiating new rates when we couldn't even negotiate an SLI?
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Originally Posted by FedElta
(Post 774355)
That is why I was wondering about the strategy......I flew with an A this week who was livid that the 320 paid more than the 88........I was happy with a Twix bar. :D
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 774342)
I wondered about this too. I think the 320 has a farther range, and can carry more then the 737. Yet it pays less. Wierd.
737-800 carries 160 passengers A 320 carries 148 passengers Both 737-700 and A319 carry 124 Passengers Ranges are very similar 800 listed as 2840 on travelnet and the 320 listed as 3009. Not sure of the 700 and the 319 but I do know the 700 can go further than the 800. Scoop - Who has flown the US Navy 737-700 over 3700 miles with a headwind (LERT-KNGU). Same fuel capacity as the DAL birds. |
Originally Posted by FedElta
(Post 774284)
Can any of you insiders educate me on payrates via LOA 19 ? In regards to A319/320, the 320 is heavier and has a few more sets than the 88, and pays more. The 319 is heavier than the 88, but has fewer seats, but still pays more.
The 88/90 pay differently, why not the 319/320 ? Don't want to bring the bus rates down, would rather bring the 88 rates up. Just curious about the methods used .......slow ?? Regards........... The LOA 19 rates were concocted to manipulate the SLI process. Nothing more. Really, a 777 paying the same as a 747-400 that seats near 100 more people? A 330-300 that pays the same as a 767-400? All the other "speed/range/lift" BS is just eyewash. They couldn't go into the SLI with the an LOA that was wholly concocted by the fDAL side that paid more for heavy NWA metal. It would have been used as evidence in the SLI hearing, probably to great effect. But they couldn't figure out a way to bias ALL the payrates without being too obvious, so they (correctly, IMO), biased the top end, figuring that was where the benefit was. Thus your MD-88 rates. Thanks to that strategy, we're now stuck with those rates. I can pretty much guarantee you after 2012, the "formula" will mysteriously change to put the rates back the way they "should" be. Your 'A' shouldn't be that grumpy about it...his position on the seniority list was probably improved significantly by this strategy. Nu |
Originally Posted by Scoop
(Post 774638)
Guys this is not true:
737-800 carries 160 passengers A 320 carries 148 passengers Both 737-700 and A319 carry 124 Passengers Ranges are very similar 800 listed as 2840 on travelnet and the 320 listed as 3009. Not sure of the 700 and the 319 but I do know the 700 can go further than the 800. Scoop - Who has flown the US Navy 737-700 over 3700 miles with a headwind (LERT-KNGU). Same fuel capacity as the DAL birds. I meant from a payload standpoint, but I'm probably still wrong.:p Anyway, water under the bridge. Maybe we'll address it in 2012. :cool: |
Originally Posted by NuGuy
(Post 774874)
Heyas Fed,
The LOA 19 rates were concocted to manipulate the SLI process. Nothing more. Really, a 777 paying the same as a 747-400 that seats near 100 more people? A 330-300 that pays the same as a 767-400? All the other "speed/range/lift" BS is just eyewash. They couldn't go into the SLI with the an LOA that was wholly concocted by the fDAL side that paid more for heavy NWA metal. It would have been used as evidence in the SLI hearing, probably to great effect. But they couldn't figure out a way to bias ALL the payrates without being too obvious, so they (correctly, IMO), biased the top end, figuring that was where the benefit was. Thus your MD-88 rates. Thanks to that strategy, we're now stuck with those rates. I can pretty much guarantee you after 2012, the "formula" will mysteriously change to put the rates back the way they "should" be. Your 'A' shouldn't be that grumpy about it...his position on the seniority list was probably improved significantly by this strategy. Nu Considering DL was higher paying all the way around before LOA 19... your argument isn't all that great. And of couse there was posturing for the SLI... I remember hearing "super premium" being tossed around a lot along with a lot of other things from both sides. It's idiotic to say anything otherwise for both sides. It's done. Over. Move on! I agree the 747-400 should probably pay a bit more than the 777, and the 319/320 should pay the same as the 737s. Other than that, everything seems just about right as far as pay grade ranking. |
In the end we voted for the JPWA, not LOA 19. The JPWA superseded LOA 19 as that was a DAL-S deal only.
Point is, to change the way the rates are requires significant input to your reps. As they say as to why, it is water under the bridge. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 774905)
I meant from a payload standpoint, but I'm probably still wrong.:p
Anyway, water under the bridge. Maybe we'll address it in 2012. :cool: The 800 is 173,000 mtow.... 320 is 166,400. Considering that the 320 is newer tech with them fancy composites and tables... thats prob equivalent to the same. |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 774912)
In the end we voted for the JPWA, not LOA 19. The JPWA superseded LOA 19 as that was a DAL-S deal only.
Point is, to change the way the rates are requires significant input to your reps. As they say as to why, it is water under the bridge. Don't forget to put the recall efforts in context with LOA19. Parts of the MEC were walking a tightrope, and there were definite survival moves made to pacify certain factions of the ATL population. Had LOA19 placed the two "premium" WB NWA jobs over the two DAL WB jobs, you can bet heads would have rolled in ATL. Nu |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 774918)
The 800 is 173,000 mtow.... 320 is 166,400.
Considering that the 320 is newer tech with them fancy composites and tables... thats prob equivalent to the same. The MD-88/90 are range limited when compared to either of the products above, which is why they've been moved from SLC to MSP. |
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