Who was affected by California Blackouts?
 

I heard some stories about certain ATC facilities losing electricity...Does anyone have any stories?? What did the International Arr. do?

What in the hell is going on w/ that state?? I lived there in 2000-2001 and we lost elecrtricity atleast 15 times. When are they going to fix the prob? Several big name companies were threatening to relocate due to the myriad of issues that negatively affect the business climate...have any left?

Many neat things about the place and no place is perfect, but when is enough, enough? Guess that is why PHX and LAS are going nuts.

Are talking about today?

LA center in Palmdale was shut down last week, I suppose due to power failures...you'd the FAA could invest in a few diesel generators.

LA center was shut down for a few hours due to a power failure. Socal took over. Could have happened anywhere in the country. That was not a California power issue.

We have not had a power issue since the summer of 2000.

Who cares? For every business that leaves, there are 3 more waiting to take its place.

Don't take it personnaly Ryan90210
 

Why are you so defensive? Admit there is a problem and work for change to fix it. California has many positives, but the energy problem continues to rear its ugly head. I believe the death toll is in the 30s due to lack of electricity/high temps this past week...I would say that is a big deal. The front page of the Austin paper has a little old women from San mateo Cty shaking her finger in the face of an energy worker because of her continued electrical outage. With the high taxes California residents pay shouldn't electricity be provided? Reliably?

My brother was flying into San Diego last week when the power went out and said it was a little chaotic. He said a Delta jet and a CAL jet had to improvize and separate themselves on the arrival...they did a great job...who needs ATC?

Is the problem the whacked out environmentalists that prevent new power sources...what is the problem??

Yeah, pretty bad huh? It's only going to get worse.

What you don't understand is that there is NO state power issue. There hasn't been since 2000.
Why did that old lady loose power? I have no idea. Sometimes the power goes out. Doesn't matter whether its in San Mateo, CA, or Austin, TX. In Austin, TX, however, it would be a lot bigger issue (due to the heat). My girl friend lives in San Mateo, and she has not lost power. When LA center lost power, it was an isolated incident. Again, it could have happened in Longmont, CO (Denver Center).

Oh, and there have been people who have died here recently due to heat. It is the hottest it has ever been in my lifetime. We hit 101 in San Carlos on Saturday, and that is HOT. It usually does not get above 80-85. To give you an idea of how mild the weather is here, most houses are not built without air conditioning. We don't need them.
There is no state power issue.

Why should you care Cargo Bob? And no it's not the whacked out environmentalists here causing the problem, it's too many people. Just in case you forgot, your Texas bros at Enron ripped off the state of California for millions of dollars. Nice folks. Speaking of "little old women", Did you hear the audio tapes of your Texas bros discussing ripping off little ole ladies on their electricity in California? By the way, your Bush boy doesn't seem to care that there are too many illegals flooding into California, after all, he's desperate for their vote.

And then you say, "Who needs ATC?"...jeeze, you're a piece of work.

Uh oh. . . we may be onto something. I wonder why it's so darn hot! :confused:

Guess we've started the California vs Texas match AGAIN. If anybody I know wants to move to either place, I'll help them pack. It just means they won't be next door to me. Here on Amelia Island Florida all we have to worry about are mosquitoes, hurricanes, fire ants and the occasional alligator. But it also means that I can have my boat in the water in 20 minutes and be out dodging porpoises, manatees and the occasional nuclear submarine going and coming from Kings Bay sub base. This from a guy who grew up in So. Cal and spent a lot of time in Corpus Christi. If any one place were perfect, we would all be living there, and then it would no longer be perfect. What's with the web site being down for awhile? Got a message about a "hacker" being in control. Think I'll go fishing.

The power outage at the FAA facility in Palmdale was actually caused by a car wreck chain of events. A car accident took out a power pole, causing power to be re-routed to other lines causing a high demand power on other power lines. The system was overloaded and kicked off-line, to add insult to injury, the backup generator at the ARTCC in Palmdale didn't kick on and work correctly causing the facility to shut down. Not a California power problem per se.

Just some basic info since this thread has brought the little old ladies into the mix.....

LAXFO

Joel, can I go fishing with you?...I'd rather be fishing than arguing about power issues...:)

Gotcha
 

Skygirl, I knew you would be unable to hold out. It's Ken Lay's fault--too bad he is dead. By the way, Ken Lay supported Democrat Ann Richards for Tx Gov over W Bush. Ann and Ken were close friends, although not what you are thinking...she bats for the same team as Ken.

I am worried about your common sense...if you can't recognize sarcasm, ie...ATC joke.

Ok...You guys convinced me. There is no electricity shortage problem in California!!??

I care about the issue because I fly there often and have good friends in the bay area/SoCal...beautiful country.

If you are from California, it does not matter if you are a liberal democrat, moderate democrat, moderate republican (like me), or a downright conservative, you KNOW Ken Lay and Enron were the biggest reason for the energy crisis in 2000. Ask our most conservative politician (Tom McClintock (and yes he is very conservative)), and he will tell you Enron screwed our state in 2000.


As for the energy shortage, it does not exist. Three days ago we had a Stage 1 power alert. What does that mean? It means our reserves dropped below 7.5%, but were higher than 5% (stage 2). I have lived here 23 years, and it has NEVER EVER been so hot here. And not jost Norcal. It was the entire state. Usually when theres a heat wave, it is only in norcal or socal. This time it was both. We set record high temperatures for days on end. And not the typical 2-3 degrees. We set records by 10-12 degrees. It was downright hot. Hotter than it has ever been. Hotter than it will ever be for many many years. And we still had a good reserve.

The reason why we don't build many more powerplants is we don't need them. Remember, we have very mild winters here. Many of our powerplants are idle during winter months. We just don't need a lot of electricity in winter. Highs are typically never below 60 degrees. The amount of power we have today (for our population today) is sufficient. As our population grows, we will need to add a few more power plants. But we do not need a massive increase.


Just to add something on the California VS. Texas thing...
I have traveled abroad a lot during my life. And let me tell you one big secret. When people ask where you are from, I tell them California! There are certainly people who are very baised against the United States. But I always get an incredible response when I tell them California. (just keep that in mind if you are from CA and traveling abroad)

Just to add another dimension to that, I had a lot of Texans in my unit during my tour in Korea, and whenever we were around the locals they'd ask us where in the US we were from. Their reactions were invariably more enthusiastic for my "California," even to the point of awe and wonder. Oohs and ahs. Needless to say, the Texans were not pleased.

No doubt about it
 

Cali is beautiful...and since it is, you better not say anything negative about it! This post started w/ a question about the ATC blackout and I was informed it was a car accident??? Case closed??? I guess it was not a result of the other continuous blackouts that hit the state every other year.

For the millionth time...I lived in San Jose/Mt View/Burlingame for 6 years and love many things about it...but...there are some serious tradeoffs to make...each his own.


Uncle Bose, looks like you made a good impression on those Koreans...They sure like it in Cali.

Austin sure has taken a ton of "disenfranchised" Californians over the last 7 years. Phoenix and Vegas have taken many Californians as well...does that make Nevada, Arizona, and Texas better??

And finally to put a nail in this post's coffin:
Since College Football is the undisputed best sport on the world...How 'bout them Longhorns!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Reggie who? Matt what?

The number of Californians moving out is nothing compared to the number of outsiders moving in, or to the number of natives staying for that matter.

I'll take your word for it!
 

Uncle Bose, "The number of Californians moving out is nothing compared to the number of outsiders moving in, or to the number of natives staying for that matter."

The number of OUTSIDERS moving in...I think that about says it all!!! Skygirl will be very offended...diversity is most important...even when you become a minority.

What does it say exactly? Is "outsiders" another offensive term for the oversensitive PC types that I should be aware of? Ah, well...if I want diversity, I'll travel. I'm from one of the whitest areas of Orange County and have no complaints.

Question
 

Uncle Bose,

To live in your neighborhood, from how you described it, what is the avg salary of your neighbors??

I miss that wx, not this past week though.

What are you rambling about Skygirl being offended by? Oh, don't worry CargoBob, Skygirl loves you too. :rolleyes:

Can't we all just get along? :confused:

Apparently not CL65. I don't even post anything related to whatever CargoBob is currently ranting about, but yet I come on here and see some random post from him about me being offended by something. Have no idea what the dude is ranting about.

Judging by what I've seen lately on many of these forums, I think more than a few people struggle with getting along with anyone. Either the only conversational style they know is to be confrontational, or they just want to flame bait someone, or a topic, so they can respond and post. Gets to be a big yawn to me.

July 19, 2006

MASSIVE POWER, COMMUNICATIONS FAILURE AT MAJOR AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL CENTER PUTS CONTROLLERS IN DARK, FLIGHTS IN JEOPARDY

PALMDALE, Calif. – A massive power and communications failure late Tuesday at the Los Angeles Air Route Traffic Control Center left scrambling air traffic controllers to deal with a nightmare scenario – how to keep dozens of flights away from each other above a large swath of the Southwestern United States despite the inability to see them, talk to them or relay crucial instructions for 15 excruciatingly long minutes.

Every ounce of skill, heart and determination that controllers bring into the control room every day was put to the test during one of the worst outages to ever hit the facility. It was so bad, controllers say, that the only thing they had of use to aid the situation that actually worked was their cell phones – devices which the Federal Aviation Administration, inexplicably, has barred from control rooms, further impeding the safety of the system.

“We were completely dead in the water,” said Bob Marks, Western Pacific regional vice president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. “We lost everything and could not talk to our airplanes for those 15 minutes. Our controllers were frantically picking up cell phones and calling air traffic control facilities around the region, including Bakersfield Approach, High Desert Terminal Radar Approach Control, Albuquerque Center and Southern California TRACON, asking them to expand the range of their radar scopes and let L.A. Center controllers know if anyone was in danger of a collision.”

Delays mounted by the hundreds for thousands of air travelers, another bad day in what has become a miserable summer. But more importantly, the margin of safety was the casualty of Tuesday’s event as controllers’ heroic efforts and ingenuity prevented a catastrophe. “They used their wits, their guile, and yes, their management-prohibited cell phones,” NATCA President John Carr said.

In predictable, but no less maddening and irresponsible fashion, the Federal Aviation Administration reacted to the event with its timeless classic response: “Safety is never compromised.” But in this case, the facts prove otherwise, and travelers know better, Carr said.

“If radar and radios are not necessary to ensure safety, then shut 'em off permanently, and let's save a ton on the utility bill,” Carr stated. “If outages are insignificant or inconsequential, let's get rid of all this burdensome equipment and revert to the safe haven of manual air traffic control. If the answer is always going to be ‘safety was never compromised,’ then don't even bother meeting with the media. With fraudulent misrepresentations like that, you can just mail them in every time there's a critical safety-related outage.”

Video Story
http://cbs2.com/topstories/local_story_199224534.html

Tapes from ONT Tower taking some of ZLA airspace
http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kont...2006-0030Z.mp3
http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kont...2006-0100Z.mp3

Hey there, Skygirl, you're right.

You and I may differ on our political perspectives, but atleast we can agree on this. There's no point in going around being confrontational for no reason. It's a lot more conducive to great conversation if you don't berate people just for having a different opinion than you. Neither side is completely right or completely wrong- that's why they're both there. hehe... :D , and get this- that's coming from a card carrying member of the republican party. CargoBob gives us a bad name, just ignore him.

Hi CL, thanks for your sensible and reasonable post. Quite frankly, just because I live in Marin doesn't mean I'm a wealthy bleeding heart liberal...:D
I'm actually somewhere in the middle, but I don't care for Bush. I think he's out of control with his power, and not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. I love this country like I love my sons. But I think his actions need to be questioned, like a parent questions their children's actions because they love and care what happens to them. I am not led by allegiance to any particular political party. Having said that, I think that there are beacons of hope on both parties, like John McCain is for the Republicans. Dianne Feinstein also seems to be a sensible Democrat, carefully weighing both sides opinions. I appreciate your reasonable and thoughtful comments. Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing for our country if we could get people of both political parties to have such rational discussions and hopefully end the spouting hatred that has divided this country?

Skygirl, not all people from Marin are whacked out weirdos. :D I've been dating a wonderful woman for the past few years who lives and works in Novato, and politically, she's grounded pretty well- just like you. You're right about having to hold politicans accountable for their actions. I see them all (Lefties and Righties) in the same light as airline management- they've got a golden parachute, so they don't care about anyone else! :mad:

We've got to hold thier feet to the fire, all of them. Clinton as much as Bush, Arnie as much as Gray Davis (who paid the price for screwing us). It really is sad what politics has come to now-a-days. Nobody has the juevos to do the job right, but they do like to collect that big fat paycheck.

The reason we'll never have reasonable and civil discussions between the two wings is because the politicans realize that divided, we are easier to decieve and control. But united, we could really stop the shenanigans going on. Look at any airplane out there, it's got a left wing and it's got a right wing. You're not leaving the gate with one missing. I just wish we could all pull our head out of our collective a$$ and realize this- and work together to fix all the BS.

Anyway, thanks for your kind words, Sky- maybe other people will follow this lead.

Marin is generally rich, yet liberal. Usually rich and conservative go together, but some of the most liberal people I know are from Marin, and they are VERY rich.

Novato is a little more "regular" compared to Sausalito, Tiburon, San Anselmo...

Ah, Ryan, you'd be surprised as to how many conservatives live in that area. They're generally low key, and gave up on local politics... but they're there. Novato is a pretty nice place, I'd live there if it wasn't sooo friggin expensive. Hopefully after a few years at a regional (haha... yeah, the pay will still be crap- luckily the GF has a real job as an Exec.), my girlfriend and I can buy a place in American Canyon or Napa/Calistoga.... that's gotta be the best part of California!

CL65driver
 

Private Pyle, gun freak, Columbine part deux...get a life and put the gun down!!

Skygirl is too smart to fall for your BS...Anyone who's slogan is "I love my M1A" is a freak! I'm all about the right to bear arms, but having that as your handle is a little weird.

Skygirl may have dinner with you sometime, but you have to leave the M1A at home. At dinner, be sure to remind her that Feinstein believes in gun control but packs heat herself and McCain is not level-headed!

CargoBob, relax! And quit the name calling
 

Jesus H Christ, Bob.. relax!!

And as far as my M1-A, it's my business what my hobbies are- not yours. So I'm an NRA licensed firearms instructor, and am heavily involved with IPSC shooting events. And I do love my M1-A, it's a great rifle. It's won me a fair amount of trophies. Gun nut? No, but I will protect my family and property if need be.

As far as leaving my firearms at home, I refuse. But I won't go imposing my beliefs on someone, just because theirs are different. But if you believe so, you are no better than the terrorists who brought down the twin towers.

Maybe you should get out of your shell every now and then. Yeah, CA is full of left wing loonies, but why take them on when you don't have to? Skygirl does have some valid points. I may not agree with all of them, but I do respect them.

And Dianne Feinstein... you don't have to go lecturing me about her. I've lived under her gestapo for 25 years. She is the biggest hypocrite I have ever seen, but unfortunately, the liberal voters in CA won't get rid of her any time soon. It's just a fact we have to face. Solution: move out, which is exactly what I'm doing.

So, CargoBob, maybe we conservatives can grow up first and get past the name calling. Maybe the liberals will follow, and we can solve our problems collectively. It's something called maturity- really, you should try it sometime, it works wonders in getting people to understand your beliefs.:p

Would you please leave me out of this discussion? I wish to have no part of this argument, and don't appreciate being flame-baited in order to try to provoke a response from me.