Originally Posted by Herkulesdrvr
(Post 847597)
some companies just know how to do it right. Where are all the "hedges are running out" people now? SWA dominates this industry whether you like them or not.
|
Originally Posted by youngairliner
(Post 848085)
The hedges didn't run out, they are actually upside down, cost the company over $100 million of the profit. SWA still owes a lot of money on bad hedges, and this will be holding SWA down for a little while. Just glad they made some money and we all have jobs. Getting a little interesting over there with the FO vs CA who should get paid in the next contract talks. Still a good place to work, but no longer the place to be. Just reality.
|
Originally Posted by FLEX
(Post 847794)
This is the interesting dichotomy I see from LUV management and Southwest employees. They have taken the title "the underdog" as a badge of honor but this underdog has become the Goliath. Massive amounts of cash, massive add campaigns, and massive lobbying. The very thing they say they find abhorrent. Lots of great folks and an incredibly well run company but they are not the underdog. Make no mistake they are Goliath.
|
Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot
(Post 848134)
Southwest does not "dominate" the industry. Give me a break. I like Southwest a lot and I think they're a great company, but I wouldn't call them "dominating." They don't even fly out of the U.S.!
|
Originally Posted by Tony Nelson
(Post 848142)
Gotta concur with Flex here...it has been a while since SWA was an underdog. They are the 800 lb gorilla in the domestic market.
Good on them continuing to make a profit and heres to further pay raises to give the rest of us some upward momentum. |
The domestic market doesn't have much place to go like the good old days of growth. There is the possibility of buyout/merger but its a hard sell since SWA thinks they can just staple whoever they buy. That would turn the so called feel good work environment on its ear if it were even legal to start with.
SWA has enjoyed many advantages (as a result of good management from years past): 1. Fuel hedging had a long history of success. They actually made money year over year. This no longer seems to be the case. 2. Low debt and one airplane type. They held onto their planes longer (which is easier to do if your mission is always domestic). Now they are hinting at a different type and or maybe eventually international. Any advantage they have had by flying 737-300's around that were paid off would be gone. They would have to pay for their new planes and incur debt just like everybody else. 3. Lower paid pilots relative to the rest of the industry. No longer the case, although I could see Kelly trying to hold them where they are at as legacies, etc make gains... conceivably this would put SWA pilots at the lower middle of the range possibly giving them this one small advantage again. All in all the the days of double digit growth, quick upgrades and big profits are pretty much over. Retirements are the best hope for advancement. One other thing worth noting, an airline wanting to go international doesn't just buy 787's and start flying international routes. Landing slots seem to be the sticking point for most international ops. Landing slots have been carved out over many years and not something you obtain overnight because you decided international flying was your new cup of tea. The only way SWA could remotely have success in international is to pick up a chunk of routes from a legacy (not likely to happen at this point) or buy a legacy and merge (not likely to happen at this point). The best SWA could hope for is international code share and most likely where they will end up...feeding a US Legacy or established international operators from other countries. Of course they need to be careful, too many changes and they will end up a has been regional airline feeding hub and spoke not unlike Skywest, Gojets, etc Southwest Airlines orders 25 Boeing 737 jets - BusinessWeek Southwest Airlines Co. said Thursday it will take delivery of 25 Boeing 737-700 jets beginning next year to replace some of its older "classic" models of the same plane. The airline said it has no immediate plans to increase the size of its fleet, currently at 544 planes -- all 737s -- until travel demand picks up. Southwest said it exercised options to buy 25 planes with delivery beginning next year and running through 2016 to replace less fuel-efficient older aircraft. The airline said it has the right to buy 98 planes through 2021. |
One scary part in all of this is that most airlines actually did "shrink their way to profitablity."
Who knows the implications of that... |
Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
(Post 848170)
The domestic market doesn't have much place to go like the good old days of growth. There is the possibility of buyout/merger but its a hard sell since SWA thinks they can just staple whoever they buy. That would turn the so called feel good work environment on its ear if it were even legal to start with.
SWA has enjoyed many advantages (as a result of good management from years past): 1. Fuel hedging had a long history of success. They actually made money year over year. This no longer seems to be the case. 2. Low debt and one airplane type. They held onto their planes longer (which is easier to do if your mission is always domestic). Now they are hinting at a different type and or maybe eventually international. Any advantage they have had by flying 737-300's around that were paid off would be gone. They would have to pay for their new planes and incur debt just like everybody else. 3. Lower paid pilots relative to the rest of the industry. No longer the case, although I could see Kelly trying to hold them where they are at as legacies, etc make gains... conceivably this would put SWA pilots at the lower middle of the range possibly giving them this one small advantage again. All in all the the days of double digit growth, quick upgrades and big profits are pretty much over. Retirements are the best hope for advancement. One other thing worth noting, an airline wanting to go international doesn't just buy 787's and start flying international routes. Landing slots seem to be the sticking point for most international ops. Landing slots have been carved out over many years and not something you obtain overnight because you decided international flying was your new cup of tea. The only way SWA could remotely have success in international is to pick up a chunk of routes from a legacy (not likely to happen at this point) or buy a legacy and merge (not likely to happen at this point). The best SWA could hope for is international code share and most likely where they will end up...feeding a US Legacy or established international operators from other countries. Of course they need to be careful, too many changes and they will end up a has been regional airline feeding hub and spoke not unlike Skywest, Gojets, etc Southwest Airlines orders 25 Boeing 737 jets - BusinessWeek Southwest Airlines Co. said Thursday it will take delivery of 25 Boeing 737-700 jets beginning next year to replace some of its older "classic" models of the same plane. The airline said it has no immediate plans to increase the size of its fleet, currently at 544 planes -- all 737s -- until travel demand picks up. Southwest said it exercised options to buy 25 planes with delivery beginning next year and running through 2016 to replace less fuel-efficient older aircraft. The airline said it has the right to buy 98 planes through 2021. |
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 848319)
I think you're spot on for the most part except that I've flown quite a bit of international routes in 737s. Seems like anywhere I go south of Houston CAL puts me on one.
|
Originally Posted by ClipperJet
(Post 848229)
One scary part in all of this is that most airlines actually did "shrink their way to profitablity."
Who knows the implications of that... |
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:18 PM. |
User Alert System provided by
Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Website Copyright ©2000 - 2017 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands