Southwest 2nd Quarter
07-30-2010, 11:41 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
Originally Posted by Herkulesdrvr
some companies just know how to do it right. Where are all the "hedges are running out" people now? SWA dominates this industry whether you like them or not.
07-30-2010, 11:47 AM
#32
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by youngairliner
The hedges didn't run out, they are actually upside down, cost the company over $100 million of the profit. SWA still owes a lot of money on bad hedges, and this will be holding SWA down for a little while. Just glad they made some money and we all have jobs. Getting a little interesting over there with the FO vs CA who should get paid in the next contract talks. Still a good place to work, but no longer the place to be. Just reality.
07-30-2010, 11:58 AM
#33
Fore!
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 756 F/O
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by FLEX
This is the interesting dichotomy I see from LUV management and Southwest employees. They have taken the title "the underdog" as a badge of honor but this underdog has become the Goliath. Massive amounts of cash, massive add campaigns, and massive lobbying. The very thing they say they find abhorrent. Lots of great folks and an incredibly well run company but they are not the underdog. Make no mistake they are Goliath.
07-30-2010, 12:01 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot
Southwest does not "dominate" the industry. Give me a break. I like Southwest a lot and I think they're a great company, but I wouldn't call them "dominating." They don't even fly out of the U.S.!
07-30-2010, 12:06 PM
#35
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by Tony Nelson
Gotta concur with Flex here...it has been a while since SWA was an underdog. They are the 800 lb gorilla in the domestic market.
Good on them continuing to make a profit and heres to further pay raises to give the rest of us some upward momentum.
07-30-2010, 12:50 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
The domestic market doesn't have much place to go like the good old days of growth. There is the possibility of buyout/merger but its a hard sell since SWA thinks they can just staple whoever they buy. That would turn the so called feel good work environment on its ear if it were even legal to start with.
SWA has enjoyed many advantages (as a result of good management from years past):
1. Fuel hedging had a long history of success. They actually made money year over year. This no longer seems to be the case.
2. Low debt and one airplane type. They held onto their planes longer (which is easier to do if your mission is always domestic). Now they are hinting at a different type and or maybe eventually international. Any advantage they have had by flying 737-300's around that were paid off would be gone. They would have to pay for their new planes and incur debt just like everybody else.
3. Lower paid pilots relative to the rest of the industry. No longer the case, although I could see Kelly trying to hold them where they are at as legacies, etc make gains... conceivably this would put SWA pilots at the lower middle of the range possibly giving them this one small advantage again.
All in all the the days of double digit growth, quick upgrades and big profits are pretty much over. Retirements are the best hope for advancement.
One other thing worth noting, an airline wanting to go international doesn't just buy 787's and start flying international routes. Landing slots seem to be the sticking point for most international ops. Landing slots have been carved out over many years and not something you obtain overnight because you decided international flying was your new cup of tea. The only way SWA could remotely have success in international is to pick up a chunk of routes from a legacy (not likely to happen at this point) or buy a legacy and merge (not likely to happen at this point). The best SWA could hope for is international code share and most likely where they will end up...feeding a US Legacy or established international operators from other countries. Of course they need to be careful, too many changes and they will end up a has been regional airline feeding hub and spoke not unlike Skywest, Gojets, etc
Southwest Airlines orders 25 Boeing 737 jets - BusinessWeek
Southwest Airlines Co. said Thursday it will take delivery of 25 Boeing 737-700 jets beginning next year to replace some of its older "classic" models of the same plane.
The airline said it has no immediate plans to increase the size of its fleet, currently at 544 planes -- all 737s -- until travel demand picks up.
Southwest said it exercised options to buy 25 planes with delivery beginning next year and running through 2016 to replace less fuel-efficient older aircraft. The airline said it has the right to buy 98 planes through 2021.
SWA has enjoyed many advantages (as a result of good management from years past):
1. Fuel hedging had a long history of success. They actually made money year over year. This no longer seems to be the case.
2. Low debt and one airplane type. They held onto their planes longer (which is easier to do if your mission is always domestic). Now they are hinting at a different type and or maybe eventually international. Any advantage they have had by flying 737-300's around that were paid off would be gone. They would have to pay for their new planes and incur debt just like everybody else.
3. Lower paid pilots relative to the rest of the industry. No longer the case, although I could see Kelly trying to hold them where they are at as legacies, etc make gains... conceivably this would put SWA pilots at the lower middle of the range possibly giving them this one small advantage again.
All in all the the days of double digit growth, quick upgrades and big profits are pretty much over. Retirements are the best hope for advancement.
One other thing worth noting, an airline wanting to go international doesn't just buy 787's and start flying international routes. Landing slots seem to be the sticking point for most international ops. Landing slots have been carved out over many years and not something you obtain overnight because you decided international flying was your new cup of tea. The only way SWA could remotely have success in international is to pick up a chunk of routes from a legacy (not likely to happen at this point) or buy a legacy and merge (not likely to happen at this point). The best SWA could hope for is international code share and most likely where they will end up...feeding a US Legacy or established international operators from other countries. Of course they need to be careful, too many changes and they will end up a has been regional airline feeding hub and spoke not unlike Skywest, Gojets, etc
Southwest Airlines orders 25 Boeing 737 jets - BusinessWeek
Southwest Airlines Co. said Thursday it will take delivery of 25 Boeing 737-700 jets beginning next year to replace some of its older "classic" models of the same plane.
The airline said it has no immediate plans to increase the size of its fleet, currently at 544 planes -- all 737s -- until travel demand picks up.
Southwest said it exercised options to buy 25 planes with delivery beginning next year and running through 2016 to replace less fuel-efficient older aircraft. The airline said it has the right to buy 98 planes through 2021.
07-30-2010, 07:28 PM
#38
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
The domestic market doesn't have much place to go like the good old days of growth. There is the possibility of buyout/merger but its a hard sell since SWA thinks they can just staple whoever they buy. That would turn the so called feel good work environment on its ear if it were even legal to start with.
SWA has enjoyed many advantages (as a result of good management from years past):
1. Fuel hedging had a long history of success. They actually made money year over year. This no longer seems to be the case.
2. Low debt and one airplane type. They held onto their planes longer (which is easier to do if your mission is always domestic). Now they are hinting at a different type and or maybe eventually international. Any advantage they have had by flying 737-300's around that were paid off would be gone. They would have to pay for their new planes and incur debt just like everybody else.
3. Lower paid pilots relative to the rest of the industry. No longer the case, although I could see Kelly trying to hold them where they are at as legacies, etc make gains... conceivably this would put SWA pilots at the lower middle of the range possibly giving them this one small advantage again.
All in all the the days of double digit growth, quick upgrades and big profits are pretty much over. Retirements are the best hope for advancement.
One other thing worth noting, an airline wanting to go international doesn't just buy 787's and start flying international routes. Landing slots seem to be the sticking point for most international ops. Landing slots have been carved out over many years and not something you obtain overnight because you decided international flying was your new cup of tea. The only way SWA could remotely have success in international is to pick up a chunk of routes from a legacy (not likely to happen at this point) or buy a legacy and merge (not likely to happen at this point). The best SWA could hope for is international code share and most likely where they will end up...feeding a US Legacy or established international operators from other countries. Of course they need to be careful, too many changes and they will end up a has been regional airline feeding hub and spoke not unlike Skywest, Gojets, etc
Southwest Airlines orders 25 Boeing 737 jets - BusinessWeek
Southwest Airlines Co. said Thursday it will take delivery of 25 Boeing 737-700 jets beginning next year to replace some of its older "classic" models of the same plane.
The airline said it has no immediate plans to increase the size of its fleet, currently at 544 planes -- all 737s -- until travel demand picks up.
Southwest said it exercised options to buy 25 planes with delivery beginning next year and running through 2016 to replace less fuel-efficient older aircraft. The airline said it has the right to buy 98 planes through 2021.
SWA has enjoyed many advantages (as a result of good management from years past):
1. Fuel hedging had a long history of success. They actually made money year over year. This no longer seems to be the case.
2. Low debt and one airplane type. They held onto their planes longer (which is easier to do if your mission is always domestic). Now they are hinting at a different type and or maybe eventually international. Any advantage they have had by flying 737-300's around that were paid off would be gone. They would have to pay for their new planes and incur debt just like everybody else.
3. Lower paid pilots relative to the rest of the industry. No longer the case, although I could see Kelly trying to hold them where they are at as legacies, etc make gains... conceivably this would put SWA pilots at the lower middle of the range possibly giving them this one small advantage again.
All in all the the days of double digit growth, quick upgrades and big profits are pretty much over. Retirements are the best hope for advancement.
One other thing worth noting, an airline wanting to go international doesn't just buy 787's and start flying international routes. Landing slots seem to be the sticking point for most international ops. Landing slots have been carved out over many years and not something you obtain overnight because you decided international flying was your new cup of tea. The only way SWA could remotely have success in international is to pick up a chunk of routes from a legacy (not likely to happen at this point) or buy a legacy and merge (not likely to happen at this point). The best SWA could hope for is international code share and most likely where they will end up...feeding a US Legacy or established international operators from other countries. Of course they need to be careful, too many changes and they will end up a has been regional airline feeding hub and spoke not unlike Skywest, Gojets, etc
Southwest Airlines orders 25 Boeing 737 jets - BusinessWeek
Southwest Airlines Co. said Thursday it will take delivery of 25 Boeing 737-700 jets beginning next year to replace some of its older "classic" models of the same plane.
The airline said it has no immediate plans to increase the size of its fleet, currently at 544 planes -- all 737s -- until travel demand picks up.
Southwest said it exercised options to buy 25 planes with delivery beginning next year and running through 2016 to replace less fuel-efficient older aircraft. The airline said it has the right to buy 98 planes through 2021.
07-30-2010, 07:40 PM
#39
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
I think you're spot on for the most part except that I've flown quite a bit of international routes in 737s. Seems like anywhere I go south of Houston CAL puts me on one.
07-30-2010, 08:31 PM
#40
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: A nice comfy Boeing seat.
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by ClipperJet
One scary part in all of this is that most airlines actually did "shrink their way to profitablity."
Who knows the implications of that...
Who knows the implications of that...
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