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3 UAL flights had long tarmac delays in June

Old 08-10-2010, 07:47 AM
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Default 3 UAL flights had long tarmac delays in June

Is there a fine being levied?

3 United flights had long tarmac delays in June


11:25 am ET 08/10/2010- Associated Press Online
The government says three flights in June sat on the tarmac for more than three hours, but there was no increase in the cancellation rate of flights among the nation's biggest airlines.
All three were United Airlines flights, and all broke the three-hour limit by five minutes or less.
More than 268 flights were delayed for more than three hours in June 2009.
June was the second month the tarmac-delay rule was in effect. Airlines face stiff fines if they do not return passengers to the terminal within the three-hour limit.
The Transportation Department reported the statistics Tuesday as part of its monthly on-time report. Hawaiian Airlines again operated the most flights on time, followed by Alaska Airlines and US Airways.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Bligh View Post
Is there a fine being levied?

3 United flights had long tarmac delays in June


11:25 am ET 08/10/2010- Associated Press Online
The government says three flights in June sat on the tarmac for more than three hours, but there was no increase in the cancellation rate of flights among the nation's biggest airlines.
All three were United Airlines flights, and all broke the three-hour limit by five minutes or less.
More than 268 flights were delayed for more than three hours in June 2009.
June was the second month the tarmac-delay rule was in effect. Airlines face stiff fines if they do not return passengers to the terminal within the three-hour limit.
The Transportation Department reported the statistics Tuesday as part of its monthly on-time report. Hawaiian Airlines again operated the most flights on time, followed by Alaska Airlines and US Airways.
Bet DOT is stuck on this one. The unintended consequences of the rule are become more and more apparent. Note how eager they are to report the cancellation rate hasn't gone up, in the first sentence even.

If they levy the fines, you're going to see more cancellations.

I would wager this rule is quietly set aside, with fines to be witheld until we reach some arbitrary number of delays, at which time USAToday will freak, CNN will will follow, and the public will become outraged when the TV tells them to be. Politicians will gladly jump in the middle. Then DOT will try to collect on some fines, the airlines will cancel some more, and there will be some negotiation, and promises will be made.

Of course, if they don't collect the fines for a while, then try to collect later on, there will be allegations of favoritism. So far, United acounts for 6 out of 7 flights identified as having missed the window.

In a perverse way, the rule will "work": delays of more than three hours will be few. There will a working equilibirum will be struck between cancellations and fines, with fines probably not being collected, and cancellations being elevated only enough to meet delay targets, which will let the DOT claim it's protecting consumers. So well protected they won't even have to worry about setting foot on the airplane...
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:12 AM
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Never flown 121 some I'm curious. Is it an automatic thing where the plane is supposed to go back to the gate under this rule?

Does the crew have any say-so? What if ATC said about 15 more mins? Could they put it to a democratic vote over the PA? Heck, if all are in favor to wait, why not wait. Then go back the moment the first pax wants to return.

Anyone here have real world experience with this?
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TpaPilot View Post
Never flown 121 some I'm curious. Is it an automatic thing where the plane is supposed to go back to the gate under this rule?

Does the crew have any say-so? What if ATC said about 15 more mins? Could they put it to a democratic vote over the PA? Heck, if all are in favor to wait, why not wait. Then go back the moment the first pax wants to return.

Anyone here have real world experience with this?

Having any kind of "vote" by the passengers is a HUGE mistake! Some passengers are more timid than others, won't voice their wishes, and don't want to be seen as the "problem child" to the other pax. There are some caveats to the rule but I'm not one to "press to test" on them. My company has a DOT 3 hour policy out and I follow it. Rules like this have consequences to both company and passengers.

Why not wait the extra 15 min.? How many times has that 15 min. turned into 45 min? Because you become a statistic and now have to answer alot of questions. Why not just avoid the hassle?

Denny
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:49 PM
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One thing is for sure when you sign that release you are not ratifying a democracy. There was a captain at a major a few years ago that put a departure up to a vote because the arrival weather was "dicey", and he wasn't sure they'd get in. The FAA found him and had some words for him, no idea what ever came of that. No doubt they weren't looking to send him a commendation letter.

The new delay rules are firm policy at 121s now, but it looks like they have created a few tricks to keep many flights from ever getting off the gate when ramp delays are forecast to be lengthy.
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