Comparison Question
 

Everyone likes to rag on young new pilots that go through PFT for their lisences. People say they are not qualified for the jobs and that they dont have experience. I thought about this the other day and have a question.

WHat is the difference between a 23 year old that goes through all the ratings to get commercial multi and CFI at a school (Flight Saftey, COMAIR,ALLATps, etc) and comes out with for example 600 hours and gets a ajob flying CRJs. Whats the difference between him and the 23 year old fresh out of AFROTC who goes to LAckland AFB and flies a T-37 and eventually a T-38 and onto a C-130. Both are 23 years old. Both have low flight time. WHy do we rag on the one and praise the other? In fact not only is the 23 year old AIr Force piot flying sophisticated equipment at a young age and low time, he is carring munitions aborad his aircraft and can fight with his aricraft ( a fighter not a C-130)

Good question, easy answer.

The PFT student is only guaranteed to meet FAA minimum standards, and may have no redeeming qualities other than daddy and mommies willingness to shell out or cosign for the big $$$$.

The military pilot most likely had to compete for an ROTC/Academy scholarship, so he busted his b@llz in high school (academics and varsity athletics), then went to a decent or top-rate university and most likely earned a 5 year technical degree in 4 years (in addition to the associated military BS). Now he has to compete with other cadets for a flight slot, so presumably his grades are pretty good.

Once in UPT, he is faced with a 30-40% attrition rate, depending on aircraft and othe things....keep in mind that this is a group of highly screened competiors with a proven track record of success and accomplishment. He is normally allowed 2-3 incomplete lessons before being dismissed. That is LESSONS, not checkrides. How many lessons did it take YOU to master power-on stalls...hopefully not more than one. How about short-field landings? Just one lesson I suppose?

There is a MUCH greater degree of selectivity and challenge associated with earing military wings as compared to civilian training. The military starts with a far better quality applicant pool and forces them to meet a higher standard. There is nothing to say that a 23 year civilian PFT cannot have the same ability as a military guy, it is just pretty unlikely...if he had that degree of motivation and ability, and wanted to fly, why did he not join the military in the first place? (maybe medical DQ?)

Most real aviation professionals have endured hardship, challenge, and uncertainty..either in the service or while working CFI or freight. They had to demonstrate perserverance and initiative...which happen to be really useful traits in aviation! The 23 year slacker who had it all spoon fed to him courtesy of the trust fund just isn't going to have the depth of character that is so useful when things get tough or the tough decisions have to be made.

You asked...

Just mu humble, after 9 total years of PIC jet time, if im given a choice, I'll take a regional or freight guy any day over the military guys. Just from what I've seen and my observations about dealing with the elements and stick and rudder skill with pax comfort in mind, the civilian guys are ahead of the ball game.
Just FYI I was a 130 guy myself

Who are you kidding
 

JMack,

While sometimes military guys (especially fighter pilots) have some challenges adjusting to commercial aviation (pax or cargo) there is no question I would rather have a military trained pilot next to me rather than a pure civilian guy. Especially in today's environment (terrorist threats) the military trained pilot has been exposed to a far more stressful environment and can adjust to the challenges of commercial aviation.

What about a poor enlisted military guy that dumped the military to pursue another avenue?

I can deal with the social-class issues in the cockpit, but whatever.

"Oh, you were enlisted. . . "

Not that I'd recommend my method of advancement but I've accomplished both training routes so I feel qualified to comment.

I was a CFI and Director of Flight Training before I entered the military. I've flown corporate (right seat only), night freight (727's), charters, civilian CFI, flown caskets (corpse included), dropped jumpers from C-206's, and many other things to build time. I've spent 13 years flying military fighter aircraft and a tour in T-38's. I was an instructor in both the F-15 and T-38 before ending up at my major airline.

I agree that it entirely depends upon the individual pilot. The one thing you can say about ex-military is that at at least one point in their careers they met a certain standard that "some" civilian trained pilots could not meet. That does not mean they could still pass that same standard today. Some civilian only pilots would not have made it through military flight school. However, many if not most civilian trained pilots could make it through military flight training because all capable people don't necessarily enter the military. There are many highly capable pilots who choose the civilian route for valid reasons.

On the other hand, the military does act as a screening mechanism for many pilots who shouldn't make the grade. In the civilian world there is no such screening mechanism, although it is better today than it has been in the past. Today a hiring company can request the training records of past employers when looking at pilot applicants. In the past this was not the practice and one slug of a pilot could plod from company to company until he gained the time required for a choice job. The best do not always rise to the top.

From my personal experience I prefer flying with ex-military pilots. At times they can have ego problems but many times confidence in their ability is confused for a large ego. I have found that at times they need to focus a bit more on passenger comfort/service and less on "the mission" of flying from point A to point B. They are more of a known quantity and while I may not agree with their politics or like their personality, their flying skills have not been questionable so far. When trying to pick out the top pilots I've flown with over my career, all except one man were ex-military. I'm sure there are exceptions.

As far a civilian trained pilots, many/most are outstanding. I can say however that the very few pilots I've flown with in the airline business that I feel do not belong in a cockpit are all from a civilian background. I won't get into specifics about each individual and I'm not sure if their training had anything to do with their skills but that's just my experience.

I have been in the flying, training, and checking side of airline industry for the better part of 30 years. And its funny that I feel that, yes, there are both civilian and military pilots don't belong in front of MS flight simulator let alone a cockpit. From my experience and observation, military pilots, single seat types, have had a harder time interphasing with flight attendants, gate agents, ground personel, and passengers more so than the civilian trained guys.

In my observations, civilian trained airmen don't have as much problem improvising or thinking outside the box when certain situations dictate as former military pilots do. Again, its just a matter of opinion.

Thanks guys. I wasnt really asking this question to come down on one particular rmethod over the other. I was just curious. rikair7777 answered my question just great. thanks.

As far as the screening part for civilains, Isnt that what IOE is for?

Not again.......
 

I have flown with many pilots. At this job and many jobs before.
My experience has been that the Military guys and girls are generally
smarter on the "book end" of the spectrum. On the other hand the Civilian
guys and girls seem to be less rigid and more accomodating.
So in time of crisis I would want the Military guy reading the book,
and the civilian guy squirting the fire.

That is a compliment to both :)

Both groups have their high and low points.
It just depends on your preference and what you are more accustomed to.

I did the civilian route and thats my "comfort zone"

Horrraaayyy! Another Mil vs. Civ thread. How exciting!