acl65pilot

Chuck;
Thank you for the compliment and I take that to heart. I have no issue with changing my mind on an issue if I am presented with fact base arguments that support the opposite or a third view point. I want the best idea and agenda to succeed, not just mine. That is why I say, let every delta pilot decide but understand that I will voice my concerns. Some have said I am full of crud, and that is fine, but they are my concerns to date. That does not mean they will change. It just means that to date I have given this whole idea of an independent pilot association a ton of thought and currently I feel it is a poor move for the betterment of this group.

IMO the first thing we need to do is unify as one group, get over the SLI and all of that crap. We need an event to do this under. DPA is not an unifying event, if is a dividing event that plays very poorly going in to 2012.

I have seen some great changes occurring on the local level which is translating to the MEC level and which I expect it to translate to change at this next BOD meeting. That is the will of the pilots.

I look at the last ten year of this career and almost the last 15 years as an ALPA pilot and realize that there is a lot wrong, but a lot right. We need our career back and no one argues about that.

We have a company that is making money and that works to our favor. 12% margins are where we were before the bottom fell out of this industry. If that is truly sustainable I believe that the opinion of ALPA will in fact change, as contracts get bargained up. We have not even gone one cycle out of the CH 11 era and everyone is already saying we have not done enough. Well become part of the solution and step up and volunteer even a hour a week.

Things I have thought that ALPA should look at are:

COLA so grand slams do not need to be hit in section six. It is rational raises for the cost of living that extend past an amendable date. I have had some ask if that is legal. My attorney says so, but maybe not. It is an idea I want to be explored. If the pilots buying power is sustained though the life of a contract and then though section six most will have lest angst going forward.

ALPA provided hearth care that ALPA buys pooling all ALPA pilots together with bi-monthly payments made by each company at a predetermined rate and increase depending on the cost increases. This would be more of a leveling effect on our costs and quality of said policies since we are generally healthier than the rest of the cross section of our workforces. We work longer and use more, but in the end more than likely cost less.

One that they are doing is a grassroots effort at the high schools and universities for educating the next group of pilots. ALPA is starting to meet with industry and educational leaders and students and has many MOU's in place to meet directly with the pilots and help them along in this career path. That is very important going forward.

There are many more ideas that many pilots have that are better than mine, but you need an established association to forward these items. A new one would take at least five to seven years to truly get going and then we start dealing with massive retirements and if we are busy training guys to run the new union now how can you train their replacements?

I say convince me that going to something like this is a better idea. I look at IPA, APA, SWAPA, USAPA to name a few and realize that it looks just like us but with a different name plate. I also realize that us leaving ALPA would implode it. So using the lower costs and successes that many claim these independent associations enjoy would not translate to us as the coat tails of ALPA would be gone. That is truly an unknown quality that may cannot not quantify and one that raises the air on my neck.

DAL73n

Chuck,

You are correct. I was in training in July 2001 when Delta hired its 10,000th pilot (that was the last month of hiring before the furlough of 9/11). So at its peak Delta/NWA had approx. 15,600 pilots. I'm still not sure leaving ALPA is the solution - taking it back is better.

Desperado

A year or so ago, someone posted the dollar amount of annual dues that the DAL pilots contribute to ALPA versus the amount that is returned in sevices. If someone could re-post that info here, it would be helpful.

acl65pilot

You never see the bill for the legal bills or the medical saved so when those numbers show up understand that may of those costs are never reported.

Carl Spackler

I don't think that's your point. Surely you know that an organization this young couldn't possibly have all the answers yet. They've said exactly this on the website. Further, they've said they crave as much input from us as possible. But even though I know you know this, you've written them off in favor of ALPA national. I believe your point is that no matter what this group proffers, you are for ALPA national. I think your previous statements show that.

Please try to re-phrase this. I've read it numerous times and I cannot figure out what you're trying to say.

No, that's not my argument. My argument is: ALPA national has viewed its survival on siding with regionals because they have calculated future growth there. Since I work for a major, I view that as a fatal conflict of interest. A conflict of interest that all the resolutions from the peanut gallery will never fix. THAT'S my argument.

More smearing on your part. They say nothing of the sort. "Priceless?" These comments are really telling. I've never seen this level of passion from you since I've been on this board. And you reserve this level of passion for what? Remaining part of ALPA national? Not even I would have guessed that.

What good are resources, if they are spent ensuring the survival of RJ's flown by off seniority list pilots?

That's good to hear.

Carl

Carl Spackler

I remember that too. I believe it was 73 cents on every dues dollar gets returned back to DAL pilots. It might have even been worse.

Carl

acl65pilot

It is part of my point. For your sake I do not think I need to repeat my others!


What I am saying is that we have unionized labor at National. If we are stating that their pay is to high and the best solution is to dump them it makes us no better than a company that opts to outsource its jobs to a lower option.


That is your opinion. I understand the angst or fear but disagree with the ability to fix it. The first step is not to fan their flames by selling them out. They are ALPA pilots after all. Two, is to understand that the best way to deal with this is to shrink the regionals. This can be done many ways, but the best is to make sure you vote you position on any contract "improvement" that sells more flying. Do not feed the problem. Three, unity means all pilots. It is not convenient nor easy. It means working with them to give them a career after you take their job and move it back to mainline. Unity at all ranks would solve a lot of it. It is not the quick solution it is the lasting solution.


What can I say Carl, I am passionate about our careers and what I deem to be a fork in the road that may result in unintended consequences for this group. I have discussed them at length.

I am passionate about what the ALPA volunteers do each and every day for pilot all over the world. The limited work I have done for ALPA makes me realize that there is more good than bad within ALPA. I also understand that it is not a Country Club and I get to pay dues as well as volunteer.


The way I see it making ALPA RJ contracts pay more and give more to their pilots serves us well to. It costs those jobs out of the market. I do not know everything, but I know for a fact that the direction I see our reps going is not one of further outsourcing. Even Babbitt admits his errors. We made the mess and it is best if we are around to supervise its cleanup.


Carl, it is one issue and no matter what the outcome we all want what is best for our pilots. We may have to work a lot harder to overcome certain events, and some may go beyond our resources, and that is my fear. It will not preclude me from trying. I like helping our pilots any way I can.

80ktsClamp

I seem to remember at 9E we got about 1.15 for every dues dollar.

And all that has gone to 6 years of negotiations with nothing to show for it.

Desperado

I hope that if/when someone is able to re-post that info, that the numbers will be that high. Unfortunatley, I'm afraid that the ROI may be considerably less.

P.S. ACL, you constantly preach moderation. Try not to be so polarized so early in this process.

1234

I don't know of one contract vote (at any airline) in the last 10 plus years where the actual contract has been written, published and submitted to the pilots prior to the vote deadline. Wish it was and they gave us time to read it, but that doesn't work so well when selling a bad contract to the little people.