Delta Pilots Association
09-23-2010, 06:28 AM
#511
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by 1234
Thanks, but that really didn't answer my question.
09-23-2010, 06:34 AM
#513
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by dragon
to add a historical spin i submit this quote:
Alpa won't change unless it's forced to and lets face it, no one making 400k plus wants to rock the boat.
Alpa won't change unless it's forced to and lets face it, no one making 400k plus wants to rock the boat.
09-23-2010, 06:35 AM
#514
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD80
Posts: 394
Originally Posted by iceman49
Numerically APA was larger, had more votes, ALPA was not going to win that one. So maybe it was better to try and negotiate a better outcome for your members, than to fight a losing battle.
X
09-23-2010, 06:56 AM
#515
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by NuGuy
Heyas,
Well, there IS always the recall route.
Get the support, and recall a couple of elected reps.
It ain't that hard. They torpedoed the FO rep in ANC with barely the required notice.
A couple of well placed recall shots would do wonder's for the current MEC Administrations attitude, especially if it was their ardent supporters.
Since the LEC reps make the MEC, well, then you get the idea.
"But we LIKE our guy...we CAN'T do that". That's what every single person at DAL says. And thus we're left with the status quo.
Nu
Well, there IS always the recall route.
Get the support, and recall a couple of elected reps.
It ain't that hard. They torpedoed the FO rep in ANC with barely the required notice.
A couple of well placed recall shots would do wonder's for the current MEC Administrations attitude, especially if it was their ardent supporters.
Since the LEC reps make the MEC, well, then you get the idea.
"But we LIKE our guy...we CAN'T do that". That's what every single person at DAL says. And thus we're left with the status quo.
Nu
09-23-2010, 07:08 AM
#516
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Still in one
Posts: 784
Originally Posted by Sink r8
TANSTAAFL/ACL:
Sounds interesting, this "selection bias" stuff. Can you expand?
Sounds interesting, this "selection bias" stuff. Can you expand?
Good explanation at: selection bias - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
Last edited by TANSTAAFL; 09-23-2010 at 07:57 AM.
09-23-2010, 07:40 AM
#517
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
Lay-mans explanation: like review sites for consumer products, those posting tend to want to validate their purchase of XY or Z so they give positive reviews of the review of what they just purchased. The entire internet, a lot of outlet media, many of us to one degree or another suffer from this self validation bias.
Good explanation at: selection bias - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
Good explanation at: selection bias - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
ACL?
09-23-2010, 07:54 AM
#518
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
It was self selection bias if you completed the web survey or not. Those of us that waste our time on these boards et al are engaged and more likely to take the wewb survey that was open to all pilots. (Just like the LOSA survey) Those that do not read these forums, do their jobs and only care when there is a contract to vote on probably do not even know how to sign in to the DALPA site. That is self selection. (The web survey was optional for those that wanted to contribute)
What I was stating is that I would love to see the differences between this web based survey and the scientific survey that took a scientific cross section of our group and polled them with the phone call. There is no doubt a difference in the results. I further stated that this difference in the results are are results as well.
I would take these results and realize what unity and engagement of the "silent majority" would accomplish. This gap of data would show any organization what sort of work needs to be done to reach the maximum potential of a unified group. Don' you think? (At least an engaged group)
What I am not saying is that DALPA did this as a way to validate anything. I am saying that I would use that data as an argument as to what needs to be done and how to achieve it. I would realize the gap in the findings of each method of survey is data itself.
Make sense?
If the data was exactly the same it would mean that DALPA has effectively targeted all pilots and all pilots have the same opinion and the same goals. I do not think that is the case for obvious reasons.
What I was stating is that I would love to see the differences between this web based survey and the scientific survey that took a scientific cross section of our group and polled them with the phone call. There is no doubt a difference in the results. I further stated that this difference in the results are are results as well.
I would take these results and realize what unity and engagement of the "silent majority" would accomplish. This gap of data would show any organization what sort of work needs to be done to reach the maximum potential of a unified group. Don' you think? (At least an engaged group)
What I am not saying is that DALPA did this as a way to validate anything. I am saying that I would use that data as an argument as to what needs to be done and how to achieve it. I would realize the gap in the findings of each method of survey is data itself.
Make sense?
If the data was exactly the same it would mean that DALPA has effectively targeted all pilots and all pilots have the same opinion and the same goals. I do not think that is the case for obvious reasons.
09-23-2010, 08:07 AM
#519
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Why Professional Negotiators?
Here is why.
http://www.princeton.edu/bcf/newseve.../Benmelech.pdf
We were played way in advance. If you don't want to read the whole doc, try just pgs 34-37 or so.
Good news is this is a one trick pony. Bad news, it was their nuclear strike and we took it.
"Do it once and do it right" was the rate grab, the pension was the prize. The extra stuff given up on top of that in LOA 51 was gravy.
http://www.princeton.edu/bcf/newseve.../Benmelech.pdf
We were played way in advance. If you don't want to read the whole doc, try just pgs 34-37 or so.
Good news is this is a one trick pony. Bad news, it was their nuclear strike and we took it.
"Do it once and do it right" was the rate grab, the pension was the prize. The extra stuff given up on top of that in LOA 51 was gravy.
09-23-2010, 09:33 AM
#520
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by TheManager
Here is why.
http://www.princeton.edu/bcf/newseve.../Benmelech.pdf
We were played way in advance. If you don't want to read the whole doc, try just pgs 34-37 or so.
Good news is this is a one trick pony. Bad news, it was their nuclear strike and we took it.
"Do it once and do it right" was the rate grab, the pension was the prize. The extra stuff given up on top of that in LOA 51 was gravy.
http://www.princeton.edu/bcf/newseve.../Benmelech.pdf
We were played way in advance. If you don't want to read the whole doc, try just pgs 34-37 or so.
Good news is this is a one trick pony. Bad news, it was their nuclear strike and we took it.
"Do it once and do it right" was the rate grab, the pension was the prize. The extra stuff given up on top of that in LOA 51 was gravy.
Proactive engagement is something I am strongly in favor of under normal circumstances where a mutually respectful relationship is possible. But you cannot have a mutually respectful relationship when one side demonstrates an extreme lack of respect for the other. We are only fooling ourselves with "proactive engagement" under these circumstances.
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