scambo1

PCL;

Just when you seem to build up a little credibility, you go and squander it with a cheap shot like this? Additionally, ALPA is the organization that would be well advised to share the unvarnished truth.

DAL 88 Driver

You know what? This thread is about the Delta Pilots Association. You're not a Delta pilot. And you're being extremely disrespectful to some of my fellow pilots here. Pilots who have a lot more experience and time in this industry than you do. Maybe you should mind your own business. Go troll a SWAPA thread or something.

Fins Up

If it's only Delta business it should be restricted to a Delta forum. This is a public site my friend. Deal with it.

shiznit

How do you know how much experience he has?

80ktsClamp

PCL well known on the forums over the years.

I disagree as far as who can or cannot participate in this thread. This is a forum where everyone can play in the sandbox.

DAL 88 Driver

I didn't say he couldn't participate. I was offended that he would insert himself into a discussion that is not relevant to his situation (yeah, I know he's ALPA now but he won't be for long) and be disrespectful to the people to whom this stuff is relevant. I just thought some of his comments... especially to Carl... were out of line, and I didn't appreciate his interference in matters that do not ultimately concern him. But, yeah, it's a public forum... so whatever.

DAL 88 Driver

Well, I don't know for sure but I can make a pretty good guess that he doesn't have anything like the experience someone like Carl has or even that I have. Apparently, the guy paid for a job at a sleezeball airline in Florida just a few years ago to get time and now he's a First Officer at AirTran. Doesn't sound to me like he has a heck of a lot of experience... especially if he's been doing a lot of ALPA work. But you have a valid point. Nobody posts their resume on here and it is an anonymous forum so we don't know for sure about any of that.

80ktsClamp

True statements.... and he's at national now. I'll let that send some steam out of your ear holes for a bit.

Mesabah

If you go head on into a scope battle, which is what most mainline pilots want, the bottom line is you will have to form a new union that only represents Delta mainline pilots. This has to be done to protect mainline pilots from the lawsuits that would ensue from such a move.(i.e. DFR, SLI, etc. from the regional pilots) This is probably the main reason National avoids said conflicts and won't touch scope. It would be a death sentence for national and all their high salaried employees.

Bucking Bar

Mesabah,

First off, ALPA does not want effective small jet scope. ALPA still believes mainline pilots benefit from facilitating outsourcing. ALPA does not want these airplanes on the mainline property for fear junior pilot issues would dilute what the 767 Captains who run the union are focused on. This has not changed from the late 1990's despite the web board rhetoric that might convince you otherwise. Until the current generation of leadership retires and folks like ACL and 80 take charge nothing will change.

If we engage in hypothetical navel gazing, there is no legal obligation which would prevent a mainline pilot group from negotiating effective scope. Unions are afforded a broad interpretation of reasonableness in their actions. Further, unlike the last decade, the regional flying has become sufficiently diversified that it would be difficult to argue that scope is distinctly different than code share in general and even more difficult to prove scope specifically targeted one class of non favored pilots.

Further, the recovery of flying could be done in such a way that it provides tremendous benefit to ALPA members at regional air carriers. At a minimum, I believe longevity should be portable within the brand and association.

Probably the only "recovery" that might take place is the next generation of small narrow body jets which span 737 to 757 performance levels. If they pay for themselves through cost savings the airlines will order thousands of the the things and shift flying back in house. If it is effortless and "free" then ALPA will take the windfall and the credit. If the airlines decide to outsource again I'd say it is only about 50 / 50 that ALPA wont try to barter these off the property. In any event ALPA is unlikely to be the deciding factor in the placement of these jets.

The 50 seat market probably is never coming back due to the increased infrastructure and operational costs of running airports without a large customer base to collect sufficient taxes and fees from. Regional air service is relentlessly moving towards greater efficiency through consolidation. Places like Brunswick Georgia and Macon are never going to survive in the face of much lower cost competition from Jacksonville and Atlanta.