Delta Pilots Association
11-26-2013, 10:19 AM
#8581
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
I asked what happened to "white papers," and that's your response? A dozen questions?
Classic political obfuscation, misdirection...with a dose of plain ol' nonsense.
Answer the question.
Classic political obfuscation, misdirection...with a dose of plain ol' nonsense.
Answer the question.
He soon will be recycled as the others were before him.
Anyway, what he did not answer in his ramblings was that at one time pro/cons, or white papers, were in the policy manual.
MEC had it removed.
They claimed that if they approved, let's say a TA, why should they publish and disseminate a contrary position?
There was a really good one out for C2K. After that, it was stricken from the manual.
11-26-2013, 10:26 AM
#8582
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
But you were in the position to decide outcomes of the recall vote acl. And you did the easy, weak-kneed politically expedient thing. You caved in to pressure from your council to be a team player. You were the swing vote. You voted to continue the Moak/Special Committee philosophy of a top-down autocracy. We had a chance. Many junior pilots voted for you thinking they were voting for change. You chose to go along and get along. It didn't surprise me one bit.
Carl
Carl
Couple of objective facts:
- Threats of recall were flying against most reps in most Councils as politically the Chairman's recall was beginning to look like the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. I mean it was like one week we were heralding new levels of economic cooperation and function and the next week so much fur was flying it would take a Civil War historian a 12 volume series to sort out
- No recall motions were filed against any sitting Rep (meaning smarter men looked through the smoke)
- You were not on board with our past MEC Chairman, until he was threatened. He gained your support as he lost the support of the MEC
- The MEC is following standard procedures to elect a new Chairman
11-26-2013, 10:29 AM
#8583
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by TheManager
Anyway, what he did not answer in his ramblings was that at one time pro/cons, or white papers, were in the policy manual.
MEC had it removed.
They claimed that if they approved, let's say a TA, why should they publish and disseminate a contrary position?
There was a really good one out for C2K. After that, it was stricken from the manual.
11-26-2013, 10:35 AM
#8584
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by TheManager
There was a really good one out for C2K. After that, it was stricken from the manual.
Generally, you want your Negotiating Committee to reach an agreement which is acceptable to the group.
You want management to know the NC speaks for the group and if they say "no" it means "no" and if they say "yes, if you give us XX" then it means "yes" if management complies. A NC with authority and confidence gets more done.
So, I completely understand why the MEC would not want to be in the business of "con" papers. After all, if the "con" list is significant, why did the negotiating committee and MEC send it to the pilots?
Unity ... all Delta pilots, one bargaining position.
(that having been said, I'd certainly read a con piece and consider it ... but in today's age anyone can write it)
11-26-2013, 10:49 AM
#8585
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: ATL 7ER A
Posts: 307
Who needs a white paper with MEMRAT? Make up your own mind, based on your own circumstances after reading the TA yourself. I don't need anyone to read it to me.
Anything else is a sell job, one way or the other.
The fawning nostalgia for KR by the Donut crowd is troubling. It simply didn't exist until October 17th.
Anything else is a sell job, one way or the other.
The fawning nostalgia for KR by the Donut crowd is troubling. It simply didn't exist until October 17th.
11-26-2013, 10:50 AM
#8586
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
... but in today's age anyone can write it)
APC is your answer to a "con" paper? YGBSM.
If the MEC won't condone a "con" paper, how exactly will the non-APC population (a vast majority of the group) get an alternate take?
But that's the point, isn't it.
11-26-2013, 11:16 AM
#8587
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by crewdawg52
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good post gloopy, but I refuse to lift one finger or volunteer ANY of my free time to an agency I have total disdain for (ALPA).
Good post gloopy, but I refuse to lift one finger or volunteer ANY of my free time to an agency I have total disdain for (ALPA).
11-26-2013, 11:21 AM
#8588
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
But that's the point, isn't it.
But, if you want it changed, write a resolution. Lobby for it. If it appears controversial get it on the agenda and have your buddies bring proxies.
Either that, or fin a sympathetic Rep that will make it "his" issue and get it pushed up the ladder.
If the majority believe it to be a good idea ... it will be so.
11-26-2013, 12:47 PM
#8589
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Carl;
Has any Rep stated clearly to the rest of the MEC that they want the special committee pulled down? Have your Reps communicated that to you? To your council?
Has any Rep stated clearly to the rest of the MEC that they want the special committee pulled down? Have your Reps communicated that to you? To your council?
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
You caved in to pressure from your council to be a team player. You were the swing vote. You voted to continue the Moak/Special Committee philosophy of a top-down autocracy.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I have never had issue making a decision based upon how I see the issue and if you want to categorize how any Rep voted in to some sub-group, on any issue, far be it for me to stop you. I would also state your beliefs are flat out wrong, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that.
Carl
11-26-2013, 01:05 PM
#8590
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
But, if you want it changed, write a resolution. Lobby for it. If it appears controversial get it on the agenda and have your buddies bring proxies.
Either that, or fin a sympathetic Rep that will make it "his" issue and get it pushed up the ladder.
If the majority believe it to be a good idea ... it will be so.
Either that, or fin a sympathetic Rep that will make it "his" issue and get it pushed up the ladder.
If the majority believe it to be a good idea ... it will be so.
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