First SNA, now YYZ (Virgin America)
01-24-2011, 01:47 PM
#1
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First SNA, now YYZ (Virgin America)
Virgin America to drop Toronto...
By Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY
Virgin America's foray into Canada apparently will be short-lived.
The San Francisco-based carrier announced over the weekend that it would "indefinitely suspend" service between Toronto's Pearson International Airport and Los Angeles and San Francisco on April 6, according to the National Post of Toronto.
Virgin America had just begun flying to Toronto in June 2010.
The Post writes that Virgin America "said it would focus its capacity on more lucrative markets from the West Coast, including Dallas."
"We would like to thank the Toronto airport and community for supporting us," Virgin America Vice President of Planning and Sales Diana Walke says in a press release. "We hope to return to YYZ (Toronto) at some point, but in the smaller Toronto-West Coast markets we were not able to stimulate demand as quickly as we would have liked."
On that note, The Dallas Morning News says "Toronto's loss will be Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport's gain."
That's because Virgin America will take the aircraft from its canceled Toronto routes and redeploy them on flights to DFW, where it will add a third daily round-trip to both San Francisco and Los Angeles.
"This helps round out our schedule," Virgin America CEO David Cush tells the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
Cush says Virgin America has been happy with its DFW since it begin flying there in December. He adds the increased schedule "gives us a nice pattern, particularly for the business traveler."
Meanwhile, back in Toronto, Virgin America's retreat from the market appears to be translating into higher fares to California.
Today in the Sky reader Billy Axelrod of Toronto says Virgin America promptly refunded the CDN$335 he paid for an April 13-18 round-trip to San Francisco.
"Air Canada was matching (that fare), but I wanted to try Virgin," Axelrod tells Today in the Sky.
But, with Virgin America out of the market, Axelrod says Air Canada's fares have risen to more than CDN$600 for that itinerary.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, red Kool-Aid drinkers, hows that SNA and YYZ service doing? What was that, 10 months? How long did SNA last? 11? Looks like Billy Axelrod just learned you get what you pay for.
By Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY
Virgin America's foray into Canada apparently will be short-lived.
The San Francisco-based carrier announced over the weekend that it would "indefinitely suspend" service between Toronto's Pearson International Airport and Los Angeles and San Francisco on April 6, according to the National Post of Toronto.
Virgin America had just begun flying to Toronto in June 2010.
The Post writes that Virgin America "said it would focus its capacity on more lucrative markets from the West Coast, including Dallas."
"We would like to thank the Toronto airport and community for supporting us," Virgin America Vice President of Planning and Sales Diana Walke says in a press release. "We hope to return to YYZ (Toronto) at some point, but in the smaller Toronto-West Coast markets we were not able to stimulate demand as quickly as we would have liked."
On that note, The Dallas Morning News says "Toronto's loss will be Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport's gain."
That's because Virgin America will take the aircraft from its canceled Toronto routes and redeploy them on flights to DFW, where it will add a third daily round-trip to both San Francisco and Los Angeles.
"This helps round out our schedule," Virgin America CEO David Cush tells the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
Cush says Virgin America has been happy with its DFW since it begin flying there in December. He adds the increased schedule "gives us a nice pattern, particularly for the business traveler."
Meanwhile, back in Toronto, Virgin America's retreat from the market appears to be translating into higher fares to California.
Today in the Sky reader Billy Axelrod of Toronto says Virgin America promptly refunded the CDN$335 he paid for an April 13-18 round-trip to San Francisco.
"Air Canada was matching (that fare), but I wanted to try Virgin," Axelrod tells Today in the Sky.
But, with Virgin America out of the market, Axelrod says Air Canada's fares have risen to more than CDN$600 for that itinerary.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, red Kool-Aid drinkers, hows that SNA and YYZ service doing? What was that, 10 months? How long did SNA last? 11? Looks like Billy Axelrod just learned you get what you pay for.
01-24-2011, 03:26 PM
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fishfrighter
You just love any thing that goes wrong with VA why is that are you that afraid of them?
You just love any thing that goes wrong with VA why is that are you that afraid of them?
01-24-2011, 03:42 PM
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When VX was opening YYZ it was touted as a test market if you recall. I know that Fishmonger is anti VX, we're just trying to figure out what all he really does?
01-24-2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by clipperskipper
When VX was opening YYZ it was touted as a test market if you recall.
01-24-2011, 06:38 PM
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LOL...some of us couldn't care less what he does or says...none of it is useful...just likes to get people worked up.
YYZ was a bad choice for VX...Air Canada vigorously defends Toronto and their flyers are ultra loyal because of the way their system is structured. Toronto uses up too much block time for a relatively thin route to an expensive airport. DFW should have been started when YYZ was...its doing quite well as the additional service suggests. Every airline I know enters and leaves various markets...nothing new for a new carrier...or old. The difference is a small airline can't absorb the start up costs for a bad performer like a large carrier can. VX needs routes that are "home runs" very quickly if it wants to conserve or grow its cash. VX does very well with LAS so another flight there should be a hit as well. Hopefully they will link up LAX and LAS too at some point.
Its a great product with a loyal following in its key markets...time will tell how well they navigate future growth.
YYZ was a bad choice for VX...Air Canada vigorously defends Toronto and their flyers are ultra loyal because of the way their system is structured. Toronto uses up too much block time for a relatively thin route to an expensive airport. DFW should have been started when YYZ was...its doing quite well as the additional service suggests. Every airline I know enters and leaves various markets...nothing new for a new carrier...or old. The difference is a small airline can't absorb the start up costs for a bad performer like a large carrier can. VX needs routes that are "home runs" very quickly if it wants to conserve or grow its cash. VX does very well with LAS so another flight there should be a hit as well. Hopefully they will link up LAX and LAS too at some point.
Its a great product with a loyal following in its key markets...time will tell how well they navigate future growth.
01-25-2011, 05:57 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
SNA and YYZ worked as well for us as places like BNA, ATL and CMH worked for JetBlue. Last I checked JetBlue is hanging around and significantly larger than they were when they pulled out of those cities. Nice try Fishfreighter.
On another note, don't be surprised to hear word of another new city VERY soon...
On another note, don't be surprised to hear word of another new city VERY soon...
01-25-2011, 07:51 AM
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Posts: 93
Originally Posted by NEDude
SNA and YYZ worked as well for us as places like BNA, ATL and CMH worked for JetBlue. Last I checked JetBlue is hanging around and significantly larger than they were when they pulled out of those cities. Nice try Fishfreighter.
On another note, don't be surprised to hear word of another new city VERY soon...
On another note, don't be surprised to hear word of another new city VERY soon...
Midwestern or East coast?
01-25-2011, 09:11 AM
#8
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Posts: 1,067
Originally Posted by tzskipper
Midwestern or East coast?
01-25-2011, 09:33 AM
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Posts: 19
Maybe a windy one?
01-25-2011, 06:34 PM
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Posts: 12
Fishfreighters Dilema
Before Virgin america made its first flight, Alaska had posters in the HQ warning of a new "enemy." Alaska was very successful in brainwashing Fishfreighter. Usually it works great to employ such tactics on low ranking military to prepare them to follow orders. Airlines employ such tactics with employee groups to cause discontent between the seperate bargaining units. It worked very well with the gate agents at United to get them to rat out pilots for any reason when they were in heavy negotiations. Often to the detriment of the company, because sometimes these employees are hard to reprogram.
Fishfreighter,
Perhaps you could enlighten us why you feel the way you do after your company, including managers and union members alike, welcome Virgin america pilots in a professional manner by way of jumpseat agreement. Perhaps you could enlighten us on your view point of competition when the competition has led to the most profitable year in history. Perhaps it is the nonunion status of Skywest, I mean Virgin america that troubles you. Perhaps you could use this argument when the Virgin america pilots don't gain the right to express their employee rights to strike 70+ years from now. Please give us the run down on Alaska as they have never pulled out of a market and only increased frequency (lets include such cities as Vladivostoc and of course CUN in 2010, such a long time ago). You're a pilot, not a bean counter. Virgin america is not the "enemy." Life is generally good for pilots not on furlough. Your efforts would better be served on figuring out continuous descent approaches when flying your fish freighters, or being an overall more positive person to treat your customers with the attitude that will keep them coming back in the face of increasing competition. You will be delighted to hear tomorrow that Virgin america will probably post a year end net loss. It'll probably be spoiled by "big announcements" they themselves have, but don't let that spoil your mood. You have new "jets" coming and your unionised step-sister lost theirs. I wish nothing but the best for you and Alaska, but your attitude is concerning. More educated personel usually don't have the brainwashed attitude last for so long. I think Alaska can get you at least ten sessions per issue with no cost to yourself. I think I just scored you at least 30 sessions with this post.
Fishfreighter,
Perhaps you could enlighten us why you feel the way you do after your company, including managers and union members alike, welcome Virgin america pilots in a professional manner by way of jumpseat agreement. Perhaps you could enlighten us on your view point of competition when the competition has led to the most profitable year in history. Perhaps it is the nonunion status of Skywest, I mean Virgin america that troubles you. Perhaps you could use this argument when the Virgin america pilots don't gain the right to express their employee rights to strike 70+ years from now. Please give us the run down on Alaska as they have never pulled out of a market and only increased frequency (lets include such cities as Vladivostoc and of course CUN in 2010, such a long time ago). You're a pilot, not a bean counter. Virgin america is not the "enemy." Life is generally good for pilots not on furlough. Your efforts would better be served on figuring out continuous descent approaches when flying your fish freighters, or being an overall more positive person to treat your customers with the attitude that will keep them coming back in the face of increasing competition. You will be delighted to hear tomorrow that Virgin america will probably post a year end net loss. It'll probably be spoiled by "big announcements" they themselves have, but don't let that spoil your mood. You have new "jets" coming and your unionised step-sister lost theirs. I wish nothing but the best for you and Alaska, but your attitude is concerning. More educated personel usually don't have the brainwashed attitude last for so long. I think Alaska can get you at least ten sessions per issue with no cost to yourself. I think I just scored you at least 30 sessions with this post.
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