Wannabe22

Hi - I am doing some research on PBS and wondering if you could tell me if your airline has PBS and, if so, what system? Thanks...

Qotsaautopilot

Spirit- NAV BLUE

system seems ok for lineholders. Absolute disaster for our reserve rules which require the same RAP all month long. It’s a quality work rule and nav blue is not designed for it.

John Carr

And yet other carriers that use NavBlue are able to build reserve lines without a locked in RAP period for the month.

Pretty sure my buddies at JB, and elsewhere don't have a locked in RAP time for the entire bid period.

As with just about any, ANY PBS system, it's about;

1) The work rules that are in place, and
2) The levels/layers of capability of said PBS vendor's system. Combined with paying said vendor for said layers.

Qotsaautopilot

you missed the point. We have the same RAP the entire month and it’s a great work rule because certain RAPs are directly correlated to how much you get used. Some get used much less than others.

The problem with NavBlue is that it awards your working days and off days in the background FIRST and then places your RAP(s) on those working days. If for some reason it cannot give you preferenced rap on any single working day do to coverage of each rap the company wants, you will not get that rap the entire month and will get a different rap that probably gets utilized more and/or is not commutable if you’re a commuter.

This is a two step award process that happens in the background and is not transparent the the user.

Its possible you might have sacrificed one or more of your working/off days for a different one to get your preferred rap but as a user there is zero ways to preference rap over working/off days in NavBlue.

Not preferencing days at all will not help you because NavBlue will award days on its own FIRST and then apply a preferenced rap to those days. If by change it gave you a day that it couldn’t give you your preferred rap it will move down your list to the next one and maybe on that is not palatable.

For a lineholder budding back to rsv can be a major quality of life boost if you can get the right rap. If you get one of the bad ones you’ll get used a ton more and be gone from home flying terrible trips twice as much than the good rap you should have gotten.

We want the same RAP all month long and are required to have it in our CBA but NavBlue builds rsv in a two step process and has no way to preference rap over working days. It’s a flaw with NavBlue and I’m not aware that they can easily or are willing to change it.

John Carr

Ummmm, well, okay. But ALL you provided was;

Maybe you made your point without enough detail of what you meant? No matter...

And are you sure that's simply not a layer NavBlue isn't capable of? Or is it a combo of that and not having the workrule in place to provide it?

See above.

See above. Is your system lacking features such as "else start next", or "clear sked"? Or any other style of telling it "if I can't have this then give me that", multiple bid groups that back up preferences and various scenarios, etc?

CantStayAway

I’m familiar with NavBlue and he is correct. While it can assign reserve periods, it prioritizes days off. There is no way to tell NavBlue “Give me a PM reserve period regardless of days off” with the way Spirit has it set up.

It assigns days off/on first and then later goes back and selects reserve periods.

There is a possibility to do that with a different setup, however that would only work with 2 max reserve types (ie: long call/short call) and not the 5 (or more) reserve periods that Spirit has in their contract.

Also, to use the other setup the bidders lose their ability to say “Give me ‘x’ day off with a line OR give me reserve with ‘x’ day off OR give me a line if I have to work on ‘x’ anyway.” In other words you cannot flop back and forth between asking for a line, reserve, and a line. Once you ask for reserve there’s no going back. That’s a big sacrifice and it would be pointless because as I mentioned, it won’t work with more than 2 reserve types anyway.

John Carr

So it's the bold, and not a NavBlue limitation, is that what you're saying in that case?

So a contractual limitation gets in the way?

That's a contractual thing then, NavBlue CAN switch between multiple bid groups. As in;

Bid group 1) I want these day off/parings on a line, if possible give me a line, if not possible, then;

Bid group 2) Give me the days off I want on reserve, if not possible, then;

Bid group 3) Give me a line with this new set of days/pairings off, if not possible, then;

Bid group 4) Give me reserve with those same days off

I've watched this done on NavTech.

CantStayAway

You’re correct. Spirit can do that. What they cannot do is prioritize a specific reserve period over specific days off. You can call it a contractual issue but the contract didn’t create the limitation on NavBlue’s part.

***edited to correct a brain fart

Qotsaautopilot

I think you meant we CAN prioritize days off over a specific RAP. What we can’t do is prioritize a specific RAP over days off.

John Carr

Sorry, I thought when you said the above, you're locked into a line or a reserve, without a bunch of conditions/preferences built in.

Hmmmmmmm, interesting. The software doesn't have that capability? Seems NavBlue, unlike some other systems, has an incredible amount of possible layers/capabilities.

On another note, we've successfully drifted this thread from the OP's question. APC daily norm, COMPLETE