Two questions:

1) What, exactly, is your definition of "initially"? I'm guessing 30 something years?

2) Is SW the highest paid because their wages caught and passed others, or because others retracted below SW due to bankruptcy contracts? Important distinction.


I ask because that part of your post has more spin in it than the talking heads on the political networks.

Yep thats right dude, SW pay looks great because the legacy pilots gave up so much.

Damn those SW pilots! Why didn't they give up scope and pay!!!

Uh, no, apparently you aren't able to grasp basic math-

7th year F/O Narrowbody
VX $82
UA $86
JB $98
AMR $99
DL $108
SW $139


7th year Capt Narrowbody
VX $127
UA $130
JB $149
AMR $155
DL $162
SW $201


All taken from APC.

So congratulations, you are within 4% of one bankrupt carrier who is operating under a contract 8+ years old and AT LEAST 16% behind the next on the list (JB).

You obviously believe in VX, great, I hope it all works out, I sincerely do. In the meantime I think your position is pretty arrogant. Perhaps before you come on here and insult others with how smart you are and how stupid everyone else you need to realize that most of us have actually been living this nightmare for a long long time.

As you know, the industry is littered with the carcasses of failed low-cost carriers who all paid their employees a fraction of the industry average. To think your somehow better due to this distinction is pretty pathetic IMO. Whats worse is to not see the effect it has on our profession is very very naive.

Don't worry, your time will come, just like Skybus did.

KC

Skybus lasted all of nine months. I think we are well past the Skybus comparisons. Nice try though. Perhaps your time will come as well, just like Eastern.

I have been living the nightmare as well. Furloughed 3 times, spent years on foodstamps, taken pay cuts from unemployment to get a job with an ALPA carrier. In fact if I was still at my very first ALPA job, I would have just stopped qualifying for foodstamps in February. I drank the kool-aid of the mainline crowd in the early 2000s of not flying RJs because it is stealing mainline jobs. I remained on a BE-1900 for years to support the wishes of the mainline guys, only to get burned when nobody else supported "the cause". Believe me, I have lived it. So I am smart enough to not get fooled again by the "raise the bar" argument posted by the mindless fools on this and other sites.

On that note - here is a year by year look the new VX rates compared to A320 rates at JetBlue, Spirit, USAirways East, USAirways West, United, Delta and Frontier. Funny how you left out the A320 rates at union carriers like USairways, Spirit and Frontier. American and Southwest do not fly A320s and Southwest is considered one of the "bad guys" by people in the thread who hate start-ups. This includes yrs 1-10 for captains, and 1-7 for FOs. The last column is what percentage VX pays compared to the average of the other seven airlines for the A320. I think when you include ALL the carriers that fly the A320, not just handpick a few the highest paying of all carriers across the board regardless of equipment, the math works out just fine, thank you very much.

Captain Rates
YR VX JB NK US-E US-W UA F9 DL Avg VX%
1 105 138 65 25 121 123 111 154 105 100.0
2 110 140 97 113 123 124 112 155 123 89.4
3 115 142 104 114 124 126 117 157 126 91.2
4 120 143 108 115 126 127 124 158 129 93.0
5 123 145 116 116 127 128 133 159 132 93.1
6 126 147 118 117 129 129 136 160 134 94.0
7 129 149 120 118 130 130 138 162 135 95.5
8 130 151 134 119 132 131 141 163 139 93.5
9 131 153 136 120 133 132 144 164 140 93.5
10 133 155 138 122 135 134 146 166 142 93.6

First Officer Rates
YR VX JB NK US-E US-W UA F9 DL Avg VX%
1 44 47 39 25 39 33 37 56 39 112.8
2 60 69 61 57 61 52 64 83 64 93.7
3 70 81 66 62 68 75 73 97 75 93.3
4 75 88 71 73 75 80 77 100 81 92.6
5 78 92 76 75 83 82 82 102 85 91.7
6 81 96 79 77 85 84 84 105 87 93.1
7 84 98 81 79 86 86 85 108 89 94.3

PS - In case you need some help with your math, half of 139 is NOT 82, and half of 201 is NOT 127. So even in your handpicked comparison of a few of the highest paid carriers, VX pilots are not doing anyone's job for "half the pay". Another example of people following mindless rhetoric instead of looking at things for themselves.

They had the crappy rates that legacy carriers got imposed on them by the bankruptcy court. So, when you start comparing rates (see below) remember that until a low-pay non-Union carrier undercut them, the legacy narrowbody rates were north of $200 an hour.

The sad thing is they keep "averaging" pay that NO ONE at VX is currently earning.

Added some amplifying info for you.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well played, Sir.

Let me boil down your argument for the audience:

"I got furloughed by my ALPA carrier, so ALPA sucks. Therefore, I'll take any crappy paying job and help run down the pay rates of you ALPA bastiges."

Why don't you just cut and paste that into your signature line and save yourself some typing.

I took a quick look at the first couple carriers that came to mind. So why not include ALL narrowbody carriers, ie AMR, SW? Also stated before, you are leaving out a LOT of other things such as UALs 16% B/C plan.

Again, why come on here and brag about being paid the least? As I said earlier, I'm not wishing VX or you any bad misfortune but to come on here and slam every other pilot group with the "we are almost paid as much as you guys" argument is pretty lame. Who the f$ck cares? Nobody is listening. As you know, this industry has the tendency to strike down a lot of prideful pilots who think their organization has no stink. Be careful letting your ego get ahead of your company. NOBODY has it all figured out, I don't care how many pretty lights you have back in the cabin of your A320.

Best wishes-

KC

Nobody is bragging about VX pay, simply pointing out that people such as yourself mindlessly throw out numbers that are not even remotely close to accurate. Either you are trying to incite people based on false statements or simply a mindless drone who repeats blind statements from others as gospel. And I never started slamming others, I simply responded to the unwarranted slamming of my company based on false assumptions, revised history, and third grade level reasoning. If people such as yourself cannot understand the fact that the downward pressure on pay has FAR more to do with the effects of de-regulation, poor management, and the explosive growth of RJs over the last two decades, than it does with some start-ups, you really need to go back and re-learn history and stop posting on here until you get a basic grasp of reality.

If you are happy at your airline, and that certainly seems doubtful given the amount of complaining and bashing you have done, why complain about others? Is it because you feel like a big boy bashing others?

Oh, and if you want to include ALL narrowbody operators - since mainline pilots opened the door to scope, lets include all of the mainline narrowbody replacement aircraft out there such as the EMB-175s and CRJ-900s that replaced the DC-9s at northwest, or the F100s and DC-9s at USAirways, or replaced the 737s at United.

Dude, calm down. What are you so sensitive about? You are taking this WAY too personally (which is why maybe some of your posts are reading the way they are). I'm not your enemy (just a double UAL furloughee), just stating how you are coming off on this thread. I've got my gripes and bitterness issues (yes, with ALPA) to but I can assure you it is NOT over you working for YX. Like I said, good luck, hope it works out, but you come across as EXTREMELY defensive about your decision and a bit high and mighty. Unless you want to dicker over who gets paid what to the nearest cent, give it a break. BTW, all of the data I got was current and from APC, sorry if it is not a doctoral thesis to compete with your analysis, but again don't care.

For what is worth I looked into VX because I have all the requirements but decided not to apply for the same reason I wouldn't take a flowback to GoJets, the pay SUCKS (okay, its better than a regional but not much- and please don't argue with me over this point, again don't care:rolleyes:). Will it eventually get better, yes probably, but I personally can't live off $40-$70K a year commuting from mid-America to SFO for the unforseable future.

Good luck-

KC

Maybe it's a different perspective. But IIRC, the legacy concessionary rates were agreed upon by their respective NC's via LOA's/concessionary contracts etc.

Was there a BK court judge that told a group of legacy pilots "this is what you'll get paid?"

Please correct me if I'm wrong.