ATN/SWA process agremeent ...
03-12-2011, 08:09 AM
#12
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03-12-2011, 09:06 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by mastercraft
This truly should be the easiest part of this process! And its now taken nearly 6 months...and ALPA still can't nail down their own language.
Apparently, language which they inserted months ago is just now not passing the smell test for their attorneys.
If the ALPA Merger Committee can't handle the task of negotiating, maybe they should just send their attorneys to talk with our SWAPA NC.
I can only imagine how the actual process of negotiating SLI is going to get drawn out. Even with a process agreement, it seems ALPA will find ways to stretch the timeline.
Apparently, language which they inserted months ago is just now not passing the smell test for their attorneys.
If the ALPA Merger Committee can't handle the task of negotiating, maybe they should just send their attorneys to talk with our SWAPA NC.
I can only imagine how the actual process of negotiating SLI is going to get drawn out. Even with a process agreement, it seems ALPA will find ways to stretch the timeline.
Allow me to enlighten the bystanders on what's started to happen. SWAPA has begun the political manuevering to put them in a position of leverage over the pilots of AirTran Airways AND their own management. Yes, you read that right....their own management, too. How do I know? Let's just say that I heard it straight from the horse's mouth through numerous lengthy conversations. Actually, I should say horses' mouth. Don't ask me to elaborate on this part.
Look people, it's the same ol' song and dance. The pilots of AAI should feel privileged and lucky to become a SWA pilot if this deal goes through. That's all well and good, but in the meantime we should also be willing to take an ass-raping and feel good about it. Gimme' a break folks.
ATTN SWAPA: Looking forward to the increased pay & benefits. Looking forward to working under a culture that's literally the opposite side of the spectrum from ours. Looking forward to wanting to do good for my company again instead of wondering how I can phuck them harder than they just phucked me (again). Here's the most important part that you need to immerse yourself in......... NOT WILLING TO BE RAILROADED, HOODWINKED, DISRESPECTED, OR DUPED INTO SOMETHING THAT'S LESS THAN FAIR. Believe it or not, we actually feel that we bring some things to the table (yes, I can list these items if you really need me to). The vast majority of my fellow AAI pilots feel as such. You can take that to the bank.
Disclaimer: "FAIR" is defined differently by every single person. Just realize that our definition of fair is probably a lot closer to what most of the bystanders here (and probably the three arbitrators as well) would define it as than what you would define it as.
03-12-2011, 09:14 PM
#16
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Why does SWAPA not see any benefit in improving their own contract (scope, pay, retirement, whatever) through facilitating this merger. Instead, the feeling you get on this board is that they are only interested in capturing as many AAI captain seats as possible in the merger SLI deal and don't look inwards for management to come up with goodies to go along and get along. At DAL/NWA not only were there contract improvements but equity stakes in the merged company......
03-12-2011, 09:21 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by mastercraft
Its actually a bit amusing to me that this process of negotiating Process is taking so much time.
AirTran ALPA talks about the strong, firm language in their Section 1. Particularly the part about the 18 months for seperate ops, which they say must be adhered to. They say 18 months is more than enough time to fully integrate the operations of two airlines. They are now stretching the process of negotiating Process to nearly 1/3 of the time they think SWA should be able to fully integrate.
AirTran ALPA talks about the strong, firm language in their Section 1. Particularly the part about the 18 months for seperate ops, which they say must be adhered to. They say 18 months is more than enough time to fully integrate the operations of two airlines. They are now stretching the process of negotiating Process to nearly 1/3 of the time they think SWA should be able to fully integrate.
Have you watched the news lately with regard to the happenings in the Middle East and the spike in oil prices? You'll have to pardon our "paranoia" if we want to have our contract abided by with regards to the 18 months. If the world events continue as they have, I'll be surprised if I have any nails left to bite by the time the Transition Period is complete.
Last edited by WHACKMASTER; 03-12-2011 at 10:04 PM.
03-13-2011, 05:21 AM
#19
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Posts: 30
Whackmaster
I'll try to take them one at a time. Can we keep the hyperbole out of this? Or, is it going to quickly deteriorate to a thread on Flight Info?
Can you explain to me how getting to SWA is not a windfall? How many SWA pilots (captains included) have left SWA for Airtran? How about the reverse? How many AAI pilots had their application on file at SWA prior to 9/27/10? Why is that?
That we have leverage is no mystery and does not need to be supported by unsubstantiated anonymous rumor. We have leverage because we negotiated it in our CBA. We have leverage through the Sideletter that we just negotiated with our management. We have leverage because of the reasons I posted above. We have leverage because we have the better contract. We have leverage because we are the largest domestic carrier in the world. We have leverage because we have a great working relationship with our management. If you feel you've been left in a lurch through this process look no further than your own management and the CBA you have with them. If you want a better "transition agreement" then you need to go to YOUR management. SWA has no legal authority or right to negotiate WITH ATN MEC/ALPA and neither does SWAPA. It is forbidden by our CBA. What do you expect?
I would never tell you how to "feel" about this deal. Why was there a mass exodus of any Airtran pilot that applied and could get hired at SWA? Why were there no pilots leaving SWA to go to AAI? It's simple and you know it so let's start from there and don't ignore the facts. SWA is a better place to be. Pay, Bennies, Schedule, QOL, relationship with mgt, Career expectations, I could go on and on.
And the vast majority of swapa pilots feel you are getting a windfall just by getting to come here, without having to interview, go through probation, get stapled to the bottom of the list (like the rest of us did) and start all over again at 1st year pay (like your Airtran brothers and sisters did that had the requirements and were fortunate enough to get hired)
Says you and your crystal ball. Keep throwing your "I want it all" temper tantrum. The more you show Kelly and VanDeVen your dark side, the more you are making the case for swapa. These guys live in the vacuum where they think all pilots are like Southwest pilots. They have no concept what it's like to have a pilot group on property that would vote to strike the place by 97%. The reason is that they have been good to us and WE HAVE BEEN GOOD TO THEM. SWAPA pilots made many sacrifices over the years to get to that point. Why should we give any of our seniority up to an Airtran pilot?
Stretch the timeline out?! Are you effing nuts? I just spewed my Fruity Pebbles all over the screen. Thanks a lot. Do tell why we'd want to "drag the timeline out"? Afterall, according to many SWA pilots on this forum, we're in for a windfall. Well, if that's the case then let's get to it, right?
Allow me to enlighten the bystanders on what's started to happen. SWAPA has begun the political manuevering to put them in a position of leverage over the pilots of AirTran Airways AND their own management. Yes, you read that right....their own management, too. How do I know? Let's just say that I heard it straight from the horse's mouth through numerous lengthy conversations. Actually, I should say horses' mouth. Don't ask me to elaborate on this part.
Look people, it's the same ol' song and dance. The pilots of AAI should feel privileged and lucky to become a SWA pilot if this deal goes through. That's all well and good, but in the meantime we should also be willing to take an ass-raping and feel good about it. Gimme' a break folks.
ATTN SWAPA: Looking forward to the increased pay & benefits. Looking forward to working under a culture that's literally the opposite side of the spectrum from ours. Looking forward to wanting to do good for my company again instead of wondering how I can phuck them harder than they just phucked me (again). Here's the most important part that you need to immerse yourself in......... NOT WILLING TO BE RAILROADED, HOODWINKED, DISRESPECTED, OR DUPED INTO SOMETHING THAT'S LESS THAN FAIR. Believe it or not, we actually feel that we bring some things to the table (yes, I can list these items if you really need me to). The vast majority of my fellow AAI pilots feel as such. You can take that to the bank.
Disclaimer: "FAIR" is defined differently by every single person. Just realize that our definition of fair is probably a lot closer to what most of the bystanders here (and probably the three arbitrators as well) would define it as than what you would define it as.
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