ATN/SWA process agremeent ...
03-13-2011, 07:25 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 441
Stretch the timeline out?! Are you effing nuts? I just spewed my Fruity Pebbles all over the screen. Thanks a lot. Do tell why we'd want to "drag the timeline out"?
03-13-2011, 08:51 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot
I'll try to take them one at a time. Can we keep the hyperbole out of this? Or, is it going to quickly deteriorate to a thread on Flight Info?
Can you explain to me how getting to SWA is not a windfall? How many SWA pilots (captains included) have left SWA for Airtran? How about the reverse? How many AAI pilots had their application on file at SWA prior to 9/27/10? Why is that?
That we have leverage is no mystery and does not need to be supported by unsubstantiated anonymous rumor. We have leverage because we negotiated it in our CBA. We have leverage through the Sideletter that we just negotiated with our management. We have leverage because of the reasons I posted above. We have leverage because we have the better contract. We have leverage because we are the largest domestic carrier in the world. We have leverage because we have a great working relationship with our management. If you feel you've been left in a lurch through this process look no further than your own management and the CBA you have with them. If you want a better "transition agreement" then you need to go to YOUR management. SWA has no legal authority or right to negotiate WITH ATN MEC/ALPA and neither does SWAPA. It is forbidden by our CBA. What do you expect?
I would never tell you how to "feel" about this deal. Why was there a mass exodus of any Airtran pilot that applied and could get hired at SWA? Why were there no pilots leaving SWA to go to AAI? It's simple and you know it so let's start from there and don't ignore the facts. SWA is a better place to be. Pay, Bennies, Schedule, QOL, relationship with mgt, Career expectations, I could go on and on.
And the vast majority of swapa pilots feel you are getting a windfall just by getting to come here, without having to interview, go through probation, get stapled to the bottom of the list (like the rest of us did) and start all over again at 1st year pay (like your Airtran brothers and sisters did that had the requirements and were fortunate enough to get hired)
Says you and your crystal ball. Keep throwing your "I want it all" temper tantrum. The more you show Kelly and VanDeVen your dark side, the more you are making the case for swapa. These guys live in the vacuum where they think all pilots are like Southwest pilots. They have no concept what it's like to have a pilot group on property that would vote to strike the place by 97%. The reason is that they have been good to us and WE HAVE BEEN GOOD TO THEM. SWAPA pilots made many sacrifices over the years to get to that point. Why should we give any of our seniority up to an Airtran pilot?
Can you explain to me how getting to SWA is not a windfall? How many SWA pilots (captains included) have left SWA for Airtran? How about the reverse? How many AAI pilots had their application on file at SWA prior to 9/27/10? Why is that?
That we have leverage is no mystery and does not need to be supported by unsubstantiated anonymous rumor. We have leverage because we negotiated it in our CBA. We have leverage through the Sideletter that we just negotiated with our management. We have leverage because of the reasons I posted above. We have leverage because we have the better contract. We have leverage because we are the largest domestic carrier in the world. We have leverage because we have a great working relationship with our management. If you feel you've been left in a lurch through this process look no further than your own management and the CBA you have with them. If you want a better "transition agreement" then you need to go to YOUR management. SWA has no legal authority or right to negotiate WITH ATN MEC/ALPA and neither does SWAPA. It is forbidden by our CBA. What do you expect?
I would never tell you how to "feel" about this deal. Why was there a mass exodus of any Airtran pilot that applied and could get hired at SWA? Why were there no pilots leaving SWA to go to AAI? It's simple and you know it so let's start from there and don't ignore the facts. SWA is a better place to be. Pay, Bennies, Schedule, QOL, relationship with mgt, Career expectations, I could go on and on.
And the vast majority of swapa pilots feel you are getting a windfall just by getting to come here, without having to interview, go through probation, get stapled to the bottom of the list (like the rest of us did) and start all over again at 1st year pay (like your Airtran brothers and sisters did that had the requirements and were fortunate enough to get hired)
Says you and your crystal ball. Keep throwing your "I want it all" temper tantrum. The more you show Kelly and VanDeVen your dark side, the more you are making the case for swapa. These guys live in the vacuum where they think all pilots are like Southwest pilots. They have no concept what it's like to have a pilot group on property that would vote to strike the place by 97%. The reason is that they have been good to us and WE HAVE BEEN GOOD TO THEM. SWAPA pilots made many sacrifices over the years to get to that point. Why should we give any of our seniority up to an Airtran pilot?
Nice speech. Read it to the Arbiters in 6 months. I'm sure they'll be impressed.
We'll see you there.
03-13-2011, 09:04 AM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 30
Rcd73
Nice speech. Read it to the Arbiters in 6 months. I'm sure they'll be impressed.
We'll see you there.
We'll see you there.
Also, you obviously missed the 1st line:
Can we keep the hyperbole out of this?
03-13-2011, 09:32 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot
Speech is actually something that is spoken.
Also, you obviously missed the 1st line:
If you want to debate the merits of my post vis a vis WHACKMASTER's, then by all means-jump in.
Also, you obviously missed the 1st line:
If you want to debate the merits of my post vis a vis WHACKMASTER's, then by all means-jump in.
I found no "merits" in your post. It was an emotional rant.
"Speech" ..... I'm sure you were muttering to yourself as you typed. So we'll stick with speech shall we ?
03-13-2011, 09:40 AM
#25
Don't want to participate
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: 737 Left Seat
Posts: 1,016
Some guys just can't control themselves, I question whether or not they're really SWA pilots. Same stuff happened here on APC during the SWA/F9 drama, an amazing number of "new hire" posters popped up never to be heard from again after about a week.
There is nothing to gain by debating it here. If you are SWA guys, let it play out like it's supposed to.
There is nothing to gain by debating it here. If you are SWA guys, let it play out like it's supposed to.
Last edited by LuvJockey; 03-13-2011 at 09:51 AM.
03-13-2011, 10:02 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot
I'll try to take them one at a time. Can we keep the hyperbole out of this? Or, is it going to quickly deteriorate to a thread on Flight Info?
Can you explain to me how getting to SWA is not a windfall? How many SWA pilots (captains included) have left SWA for Airtran? How about the reverse? How many AAI pilots had their application on file at SWA prior to 9/27/10? Why is that?
That we have leverage is no mystery and does not need to be supported by unsubstantiated anonymous rumor. We have leverage because we negotiated it in our CBA. We have leverage through the Sideletter that we just negotiated with our management. We have leverage because of the reasons I posted above. We have leverage because we have the better contract. We have leverage because we are the largest domestic carrier in the world. We have leverage because we have a great working relationship with our management. If you feel you've been left in a lurch through this process look no further than your own management and the CBA you have with them. If you want a better "transition agreement" then you need to go to YOUR management. SWA has no legal authority or right to negotiate WITH ATN MEC/ALPA and neither does SWAPA. It is forbidden by our CBA. What do you expect?
I would never tell you how to "feel" about this deal. Why was there a mass exodus of any Airtran pilot that applied and could get hired at SWA? Why were there no pilots leaving SWA to go to AAI? It's simple and you know it so let's start from there and don't ignore the facts. SWA is a better place to be. Pay, Bennies, Schedule, QOL, relationship with mgt, Career expectations, I could go on and on.
And the vast majority of swapa pilots feel you are getting a windfall just by getting to come here, without having to interview, go through probation, get stapled to the bottom of the list (like the rest of us did) and start all over again at 1st year pay (like your Airtran brothers and sisters did that had the requirements and were fortunate enough to get hired)
Says you and your crystal ball. Keep throwing your "I want it all" temper tantrum. The more you show Kelly and VanDeVen your dark side, the more you are making the case for swapa. These guys live in the vacuum where they think all pilots are like Southwest pilots. They have no concept what it's like to have a pilot group on property that would vote to strike the place by 97%. The reason is that they have been good to us and WE HAVE BEEN GOOD TO THEM. SWAPA pilots made many sacrifices over the years to get to that point. Why should we give any of our seniority up to an Airtran pilot?
Can you explain to me how getting to SWA is not a windfall? How many SWA pilots (captains included) have left SWA for Airtran? How about the reverse? How many AAI pilots had their application on file at SWA prior to 9/27/10? Why is that?
That we have leverage is no mystery and does not need to be supported by unsubstantiated anonymous rumor. We have leverage because we negotiated it in our CBA. We have leverage through the Sideletter that we just negotiated with our management. We have leverage because of the reasons I posted above. We have leverage because we have the better contract. We have leverage because we are the largest domestic carrier in the world. We have leverage because we have a great working relationship with our management. If you feel you've been left in a lurch through this process look no further than your own management and the CBA you have with them. If you want a better "transition agreement" then you need to go to YOUR management. SWA has no legal authority or right to negotiate WITH ATN MEC/ALPA and neither does SWAPA. It is forbidden by our CBA. What do you expect?
I would never tell you how to "feel" about this deal. Why was there a mass exodus of any Airtran pilot that applied and could get hired at SWA? Why were there no pilots leaving SWA to go to AAI? It's simple and you know it so let's start from there and don't ignore the facts. SWA is a better place to be. Pay, Bennies, Schedule, QOL, relationship with mgt, Career expectations, I could go on and on.
And the vast majority of swapa pilots feel you are getting a windfall just by getting to come here, without having to interview, go through probation, get stapled to the bottom of the list (like the rest of us did) and start all over again at 1st year pay (like your Airtran brothers and sisters did that had the requirements and were fortunate enough to get hired)
Says you and your crystal ball. Keep throwing your "I want it all" temper tantrum. The more you show Kelly and VanDeVen your dark side, the more you are making the case for swapa. These guys live in the vacuum where they think all pilots are like Southwest pilots. They have no concept what it's like to have a pilot group on property that would vote to strike the place by 97%. The reason is that they have been good to us and WE HAVE BEEN GOOD TO THEM. SWAPA pilots made many sacrifices over the years to get to that point. Why should we give any of our seniority up to an Airtran pilot?
03-13-2011, 10:12 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Originally Posted by LuvJockey
Some guys just can't control themselves, I question whether or not they're really SWA pilots. Same stuff happened here on APC during the SWA/F9 drama, an amazing number of "new hire" posters popped up never to be heard from again after about a week.
There is nothing to gain by debating it here. If you are SWA guys, let it play out like it's supposed to.
There is nothing to gain by debating it here. If you are SWA guys, let it play out like it's supposed to.
03-14-2011, 06:42 AM
#28
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 20
Whackmaster, sorry it took a few days but I feel I owe you a response to your post.
The Transition Agreement language was negotiated between SWA and SWAPA. Our mgmt is smarter than giving away leverage at the expense of political maneuvering by SWAPA. Our management was absolutely onboard with offering the maximum protection to current SWA pilots however. Note: Both SWA and SWAPA agreed on two-party talks.
If you're looking forward to these things, you had better hope your ALPA MEC wants the same thing. So far, their actions have not shown any desire to start the real process that will put your pilots on our CBA. There has been finger-poking and hollow threats of court injunctions thrown at Gary and SWA mgmt. Let your MEC keep that up and you will all get a history lesson on Muse, Transtar, etc.
Good luck!
SWAPA has begun the political manuevering to put them in a position of leverage over the pilots of AirTran Airways AND their own management. Yes, you read that right....their own management, too.
ATTN SWAPA: Looking forward to the increased pay & benefits. Looking forward to working under a culture that's literally the opposite side of the spectrum from ours. Looking forward to wanting to do good for my company again instead of wondering how I can phuck them harder than they just phucked me (again).
Good luck!
03-14-2011, 06:48 AM
#29
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 20
SWAPA has begun the political manuevering to put them in a position of leverage over the pilots of AirTran Airways AND their own management. Yes, you read that right....their own management, too. How do I know? Let's just say that I heard it straight from the horse's mouth through numerous lengthy conversations. Actually, I should say horses' mouth. Don't ask me to elaborate on this part.
Whackmaster, the only way you would have heard anything 'straight from the horse's mouth' would be conversations (or should I say 'numerous lengthy conversations') with Gary, Van de Ven or our NC Chair.
So, at great risk to all who read this thread, I dare to ask you to please elaborate on this part.
03-14-2011, 07:59 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot
Can you explain to me how getting to SWA is not a windfall? How many SWA pilots (captains included) have left SWA for Airtran? How about the reverse? How many AAI pilots had their application on file at SWA prior to 9/27/10? Why is that?
The aribitrator is going to look at it as two similar companies, doing the same job, flying similar equipment. They are not going to bump AirTran Pilots out of seats or out of domiciles, and my guess is that worklife won't change appreciably for either group, in terms of bidding.
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