Harry Canyon

Granted, I am jumping way ahead. But if we get a ruling of STS and we have to choose a common union, I am curious as to how you would vote under the circumstances:

(1) IBT vs. FAPA
(2) IBT vs. ALPA

Vote and reasons please...

slumav505

FAPA needs to present it's case, ALPA needs to present it's case. IBT also needs to present it's case. We need to know what we are inheriting as far as contractual language regarding scope, JM, Reserve rules, ectfrom the other two unions. It also depends whether or not IBT can get a contract done before it would become effective.

Too early to answer this question.

G-Dog

IBT. IBT's pockets and reach is far to great for us to ignore. How else do you think the SLI was paid for? I would not be surprised if they tried to send a bill if we voted for something else other than IBT.

Hetman

Looks like the cards are going out.

Good tactical move on the part of FAPA to team up with ALPA. FAPA would not have had the numbers as a standalone, but allied with ALPA may be able to tap the discontent of the more impatient among the RAH group and pull it off.

Either way, the warring factions will remain so busy going after each others throats, BB will not have the distraction of dealing with labor issues as he runs the whole shebang into the bottom of a smoking crater.

The RAH and F9 pilots will continue to fight on long after the smoke clears, the execs drift gently and safely to earth under their golden parachutes and the crime scene tape has been rolled up.

We are one.

LoitaHills

ALPA has effectively shown it has a conflict of interest in trying to represent regional carriers. It is structured to favor the highest influx of cash.

I predict a "fail" on the ALPA card drive.

FAULTPUSH

I've been unimpressed with ALPA in a previous life, but at least they aren't crooked. IBT is putting on a good show right now, but I hope that those of you at RAH realize what made them change their tune in the last couple of years. If a representation vote goes their way and they have no reason to worry about losing their members any more, why wouldn't they go back to their old ways?

Woodbourne

They have new leadership over there. The important distinction to make is that less than 1/2 of 1% of all ibt members are pilots. I too come from a regional alpa carrier; however, alpa solely represents pilots. Their resources and expertise greatly outshine the ibt. Our new combined group would be the 6th largest among alpa carriers... More than enough to be a "player"

FAULTPUSH

My understanding is that IBT appoints some of the leadership for each local - is that true? Also, wasn't RAH's legal counsel chosen by IBT, and didn't he engage in some crooked stuff regarding grievances? Can someone clarify/elaborate on this?

Emb170man

YX guys have come out and blasted what ALPA did to them....and now they want us to vote in ALPA??

IBT had a bad streak a few years ago under the old regime...they have made a complete 180 recently and I am very impressed with the current leadership. IBT is a union that has the big stick to back up their big mouth. When an IBT company goes on strike, all of IBT strikes against that company. The IBT Janitors no longer empty the CEO's trashcan, the IBT delivery drivers no longer deliver packages to the company, the IBT plumber wont even shut off the water supply to the toilet in HQ that is overflowing and flooding the 3rd floor.

In understand that each union should represent their group...but FAPA doesn't know when to stop. The latest memo's about RAH guys resigning their numbers to go to FAPA as new hires is a complete joke. The FAPA Board letter saying that it is the right thing to do is just disgusting. At some point you have to realize that we are all in this together and stand up against WH and BB together with the rest of the group. At every turn, FAPA tries to get into BB's back pocket to find a way to screw RAH guys...like I'm going to vote that in...fat chance.

zoooropa

Couple things....

I keep hearing about how when the IBT goes on strike, they all go on strike. Are you guys in mediation? Have you reached an impasse? Are you in the cooling off period? Have you been released? When are you going on strike? 2014? Later? Using your ridiculous example, every delivery truck driver, janitor, and plumber on the planet would have to be an IBT member to have the effect you mention. Additionally, name two times in the last 100 years that "all Teamsters go on strike together". If you can't find two examples, please list ONE example when ALL teamsters have gone on strike.

I find it amazingly ironic that the most common reason most Local 357 members support the IBT is because of this "strike" issue, when at the same time you haven't even TA's one section of a CBA that has been amendable for almost four years. You do realize that you need to negotiate, mediate, reach impasse, enter cooling off, and be released before you can strike, don't you?

Also, how did FAPA "screw" you? The IMSL is not in effect. Do you really want the right to fill an airbus vacancy at a different company, while maintaining your existing longevity?!! What do you honestly believe is the "right thing to do"? You own CBA prevents the movement of an FO to an FO seat as well as the movement of a CA to an FO seat. Do you prefer that your own CBA be violated as well?

Maybe the Local 357 should have negotiated on your behalf and agreed to the flow thru that FAPA offered. One of your reps said that "they already had a flow thru" while another said that they "didn't want anything in the FAPA CBA". Twenty of your guys could possibly be sitting in airbus ground school on April 4th with their longevity if you had a different group "leading" your local.

How are "we all in this together"? Is anyone from Midwest, Frontier, or Lynx currently negotiating with the Local 357? Is anyone outside of the RAH pilots in Tier I of Eichen's list on the negotiating commitee?

"One voice"? I think the only voice being heard are a handful of E190 Captains. Are there ANY FO's on the Local 357 negotiating committee? What was the result of all of the polling that was conducted prior to the beginning of negotiations? Surely you have been asked for feedback especially considering the fact that there are no Local 357 FO's participating in the process? Right?

Lastly, FAPA will not be on the ballot if there is an election. It will be the IBT against ALPA.

The IBT has 1.4 million members, of which 64,000 are pilots. Roughly 4% of the IBT are pilots.

ALPA has 53,000 members, everyone of which is obviously a pilot.

I like to have 100% of a unions attention and expertise instead of 4%.

If there is an election, the only question that needs to be answered is this;

Who is going to get the job done?

Section 6 negotiations - Go ahead and cherry pick the best CBA's that the IBT has ever negotiated and compare those CBA's to the best that ALPA has produced. Look at your current contract and ask yourself how it can be better.

Contract enforcement - can the IBT and/or the Local 357 ever prevail in a grievance, SBA, or arbitration? Look at your current contract and ask yourself how many times your have had a grievance sustained.

If there is an election, it shouldn't even be close. But it probably will be.