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UAL Capt in DEN (December-2010)

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UAL Capt in DEN (December-2010)

Old 04-02-2011, 03:30 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by b690 View Post
Lambourne, your comments about the captain's personality are COMPLETELY irrelevant.
Period.
I believe personality plays a huge part in who gets themselves into situations like this. In this instance the personality of the guy accused of losing it and being arrested has a history of anger issues and Napoleonesque behavior.

My personal opinion is that it was two volatile personalities that met to produce this outcome.

L
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Old 04-02-2011, 03:32 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by jaykris View Post
Actually thats quite simple. The agent made a charge. Let your wife call and tell the police you "hit" her.....your a$$ will be in jail in a new york minute! You dont have to prove it, only claim it. What I am suprised is, no cameras in the jetway??

J
Does this mean that the Capt was too dumb to "accuse" the CSR of a foul? Why didn't the CSR get arrested also?

L
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Old 04-02-2011, 03:37 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by SpecialTracking View Post
So you were there on the jetway when it happened? You speak as if you were standing right beside him. Open your eyes Lambourne and leave the politics and personality out of the equation.
Ding, Ding, Ding we have a winner. I believe they do have cameras in the jetways in DEN. Perhaps there is proof that what the CSR said happened since it seems the Capt is not back at work. With video evidence proving the Capt's story he should have been back to work in a few days it would seem. Instead he is home on DNF status....

There are usually three sides to a story and I for one am not buying the Capt's version as the sole truth. It is probably a mix of his, the CSR's and some other facts left out by both. What does the F/O have to say about the incident? The F/A's should have had a good view at Door 1L....

If he was not guilty of something he would have been back to work by now. Even ALPA could argue that point and win with the poor track record they have.

L
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Old 04-02-2011, 03:57 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Lambourne View Post

Then can you explain to my family where I have been for 18 days this month?
Sure. You were in a cubicle wishing you were a real pilot.

Carl
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Old 04-02-2011, 04:48 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Lambourne View Post
Ding, Ding, Ding we have a winner. I believe they do have cameras in the jetways in DEN. Perhaps there is proof that what the CSR said happened since it seems the Capt is not back at work. With video evidence proving the Capt's story he should have been back to work in a few days it would seem. Instead he is home on DNF status....

There are usually three sides to a story and I for one am not buying the Capt's version as the sole truth. It is probably a mix of his, the CSR's and some other facts left out by both. What does the F/O have to say about the incident? The F/A's should have had a good view at Door 1L....

If he was not guilty of something he would have been back to work by now. Even ALPA could argue that point and win with the poor track record they have.

L
No, I'm talking about the strong accusations you are publicly making. You sound more like a woman scorned than an airline pilot. Hope you never find yourself in the same situation.

Last edited by SpecialTracking; 04-02-2011 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Fed up
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:11 PM
  #36  
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If you didn't know the Captain involved will be in court in Denver on Monday morning 8:30 AM.

One of the ways this can be handled is to refuse to work with the CSR involved. If you find he is working your flight call zone and request he be replaced with another. However, don not make a scene and if refused wright an OPS report about it and then go fly your jet.

Personally the only time I had a conflict with a CSR I turned and walked away. I left the airplane and jetway until things cooled. The airplane won't fly without the pilot(s).

Hind sight is 20/20!
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:42 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Regularguy View Post
Personally the only time I had a conflict with a CSR I turned and walked away. I left the airplane and jetway until things cooled. The airplane won't fly without the pilot(s).
That's captain's authority. It doesn't have to be proven. It just is. When the plane doesn't move, it's crystal clear.
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Old 04-02-2011, 09:56 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Lambourne View Post
Ding, Ding, Ding we have a winner. I believe they do have cameras in the jetways in DEN. Perhaps there is proof that what the CSR said happened since it seems the Capt is not back at work. With video evidence proving the Capt's story he should have been back to work in a few days it would seem. Instead he is home on DNF status....

There are usually three sides to a story and I for one am not buying the Capt's version as the sole truth. It is probably a mix of his, the CSR's and some other facts left out by both. What does the F/O have to say about the incident? The F/A's should have had a good view at Door 1L....

If he was not guilty of something he would have been back to work by now. Even ALPA could argue that point and win with the poor track record they have.

L
L,

Once it entered into the arena of the airport cops, things changed. As to what the FO or FA's might know, guess it will come out in court. Here's a brief synopsis of assault in CO under the law. As for the "disturbance" charge, typical "padding" by the boys in blue.

This Capt's UPA affiliation doesn't make him guilty. Let it play out and get off your soap box. By rights you should be supporting this guy that volunteers on the grievance committee.

Give him a break and hope you never find yourself in some similar strange circumstance that escalates to the unbelievable. I'm sure there is more to the story, but common man, an OMC bag is not the responsibility of the CSR.

Frats,
Lee


3rd Degree Assault – Laws & Penalties

The least serious assault classification is 3rd degree assault. You may be charged with a misdemeanor assault offense, or “simple assault” if you knowingly or recklessly cause bodily injury to someone or if you cause bodily injury with a deadly weapon acting with criminal negligence.

This means that if you are in possession of a deadly weapon and someone gets hurt because of your negligence, you could face this criminal charge. Negligence means it could even be an accident.

Third degree assault is a Class 1 misdemeanor that carries an elevated sentence. You could face as much as 3 years in prison for this misdemeanor.

Ref: CRS 18-3-204

2nd Degree Assault – Laws & Penalties

A serious felony, you may be charged with 2nd degree assault if you do any of the following:

Intentionally cause injury to someone with the use of a deadly weapon
Recklessly cause injury to someone with the use of a deadly weapon
Intentionally cause injury or mental impairment to someone by the use of drug or substance
Cause injury while attempting to prevent a law enforcement officer or firefighter from doing their lawful duty
If convicted of this typically Class 4 felony, you face a potential elevated sentence of 4 to 12 years in prison and fines reaching $2,000 to $500,000.

Second and first degree assault charges in Colorado are commonly know as felony aggravated assault.

Ref: CRS 18-3-203


1st degree Assault – Laws & Penalties

The most serious assault offense under Colorado law is 1st degree assault. You could be charged with this offense if you do any of the following:

Intentionally cause serious bodily injury to someone with a deadly weapon,
Intentionally disfigure, destroy the use of a member, or amputate a member of another person
Knowingly engage in conduct which creates grave risk of death to someone and results in serious bodily injury
With the intent of causing serious bodily injury to a police officer or firefighter, you threaten them with a deadly weapon
Assault in the 1st degree is considered a Class 3 felony and carries an elevated sentence of 8 to 24 years in prison and fines reaching $3,000 to $750,000.

Ref: CRS 18-3-202
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:35 AM
  #39  
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Default DEN CSR Incident / UAL Captain Arrested

Captain John Rood was the Captain on United Airlines Flight 744 on December 26, 2010 from Denver to Boston departing from Gate B-37. After assisting Maintenance with a reverser problem which had delayed the flight, Customer Service began boarding the aircraft when the go ahead was given by Zone Control around 8:30 am.

At the last minute, a Jet Blue pilot entered the cockpit and requested to ride the cockpit jumpseat to Boston since the flight was planned to be full. After checking his credentials, and after introductions were made, the pilot requested to stow his bags in the cockpit, to which Captain Rood agreed since there was plenty of room. The jumpseater further stated that the CSR working the flight had taken his roller board away from him and was going to gate check it.

Captain Rood exited the cockpit onto the jetway and saw the pilot’s bag next to the jetway door. He told the CSR, a Mr. Douglas E. Beaman, fn181732, that it was ok for the pilot to stow his bag in the cockpit. Mr. Beaman rudely responded that the bag was going to be gate checked and would not be allowed on the aircraft. As the working Captain of the flight, Captain Rood felt it was well within his authority over OMC issues to allow the bag in the cockpit. In order to accommodate the jumpseater who was commuting to work, he told the CSR that he was taking the bag onboard.

At that time, the CSR opened the jetway door, grabbed the bag, and threw it out onto the slide to the bottom of the jetway stairs. As he did that, Captain Rood attempted to go out onto the jetway stairs, but the CSR abruptly closed the door, and used his body to bump the Captain back onto the jetway. The Captain was astonished by the CSR’s highly antagonistic actions.

The Captain asked the CSR if he was going to prevent him from accessing the ramp, to which the CSR replied that that was his intention. The Captain pointed out that he was a badged employee and the CSR had no right to deny him access to the ramp. The CSR replied that he was not going to allow the Captain onto the ramp. The Captain attempted to go around him when he forcibly tried to stop the Captain’s progress again by making physical contact. The Captain continued to move to gain access through the door. When it became apparent that the Captain was going to gain access, Mr. Beaman abruptly stopped pushing, flopped back and stated, “That’s assault.” No one else was present on the jetway during this encounter.

The Captain went out the jetway door and down the stairs, retrieved the pilot’s bag, and brought it back up to the top of the jetway stairs. Having forgotten the door access code, he was standing at the top of the stairs outside the jetway door calling the Company Crew telephone number in order to retrieve the code from an automated system. As he was in this process, the CSR opened the jetway door, grabbed the pilot’s bag and again threw it down the jetway slide.

The bag was again retrieved, and a Denver Domicile Flight Operations Representative was called in order to get a Flight Manager for assistance. The jetway door again opened, this time by a CSR supervisor, and the Captain regained access to the jetway.
but his access to the aircraft was now blocked by two CSR supervisors. So, as he stood there with the bag, he called the Flight Operations Duty Manager, and spoke with Scott Miller. He explained the situation, and asked him to check on the actual wording in the Flight Operations Manual, in order to verify where the bag was allowed to be stowed. Scott verified that it could be stowed in the primary or secondary crew stowage areas, the primary area being in the cockpit.

About this time, DEN 767 F/O William Fox, the Flight Operations Representative, came down the jetway, and the Captain briefly explained what has happening.
.
On the jetway now, there were about three CSR supervisors, the CSR, and four Denver Airport police officers (who had been called in). The Captain was surprised when the police arrived and became concerned about the escalating situation. He then made the statement that he was exercising his Captain’s Authority to board the bag in the cockpit. One police officer came forward, stating that “you have no authority, I am the authority, and your authority is only in effect on the airplane, and then you can be Captain or Admiral or whatever you want.”

The Captain also called ALPA representatives who in turn called the NER ACP Captain James Simons in order to get some Flight Operations assistance, but without any success. The Captain was trying to use his resources in the Flight Operations chain of command, but the situation was spiraling out of control. No one from United management seemed to be taking control of matters when a police officer asserted that the Captain was causing an inconvenience for a lot of passengers and that he should just get on the airplane. The implication was very clear, “Fly or be arrested!”

This whole situation, the obvious disregard for the Captain’s authority for the conduct of this flight, the physical intimidation and lying by the CSR, the added intimidation by the police officers and the lack of any meaningful support from company management put him in a very difficult situation. He was faced with assuming the responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight and safety of an aircraft with 148 passengers and 5 crew aboard into a snow storm where the forecast visibility was 1 mile and decreasing with a resultant lowering ceiling; or removing himself from the flight due to the continuing stress and mental distraction he was enduring from the intimidation and interference while attempting to perform his duties in a responsible and diligent manner. The Captain was no longer focused on the jumpseater’s bag, but rather the safety of the flight.

The Captain then made a statement questioning his fitness to fly, and that maybe he should conscientiously remove himself from the flight which he subsequently did. After gathering his gear from the cockpit, he was unexpectedly placed under arrest for "assault and disturbance" by the Denver Airport Police, handcuffed, transported to first a holding cell at the airport, and taken downtown for processing and booking. Up until the point of his self-removal from the flight, he had had the option of boarding the aircraft as pilot in command and departing.

Except for Captain McCaskey’s assistance in getting him from the Denver jail back to DIA, support from United Airlines in this matter has been notably absent. Moreover, Captain Rood is personally liable for any and all legal fees and other expenses resulting from this incident, even though he was in the pursuit of his duties, and his final decision to remove himself from the flight was made with the overriding interests of flight safety in mind at the expense of his own well-being. Amazingly, the Company has chosen to ignore his self-sacrifice and to instead issue a disciplinary letter of charge for unprofessional behavior. The Captain is currently awaiting the Company’s decision after his hearing at IADFO.

The Company's behavior in this matter is unfathomable when viewed solely in the context of safe airline operations. But when you factor in their campaign against the stature and importance of the airline pilot profession, their actions become understandable. Lastly, the fact that Captain Rood is an active ALPA volunteer, currently serving on the MEC Grievance Committee, makes very clear the motivation behind the Company's actions.

Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 7:46 PM

Fellow Pilots,

I am forwarding this email from a fellow pilot so that you are all aware of what has happened recently. The first part of C/L/R is TEM, Threat and Error Management. The first part of TEM is Threat Identification. This email identifies a threat to all pilots that operate flights in and out of DEN as long as this particular CSR and police officer are still working there. Our ability to identify this threat to our jobs is critical and will allow us to avoid or mitigate the threat.

Although the CSR is identified by name and file number, I have asked our Council 57 officers to obtain of photo of the CSR and publish it in either an email ([email protected]) or an ALPA DYK bulletin so that we can all have a photo as well. Unfortunately we do not have the name of the police officer that questioned Cpt. Rood's Captains authority and later arrested him. For this reason, I would suggest that pilots avoid contact with all local Denver airport police until this officer has been identified and reassigned.

I am requesting that any of you who have served in the Marine Corps with Captain Rood or have flown with him at United, to please contact him via email and offer your support. The outcome of his United hearing is imminent and I will let you know the results. It is important to note that he has been well represented by Council 11 LEC officers and treated fairly by the DCA flight office. Once charges are filed by another employee group and forwarded up to United Labor Relations and Human Resources, it can be difficult for your local Flight Manager to diffuse.

This is not the first time there have been problems for our pilots caused by DEN CSR's. It is my understanding that recently there was a significant problem and confrontation between a DEN CSR and a couple of our Council 11 LEC officers, Marco Salazar and Bob Fox, involving positive space travel and denied seating. I would like to hear the details from them on this incident and if possible, the identification of the Threat/CSR.

Please feel free to forward this to as many other pilots as you may have on your email list. I know that Judy Lee has a significant email list of LAX 777 pilots and request that she forward this to all on her list.

Sincerely,
Boomer Knutzen
DCA 777 F/O
Council 57 (by request due to current CA residence)
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:38 AM
  #40  
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I realize this incident happened 3 months ago, but I just received it as part of an email alert today. First I've heard of it. I don't fly for UAL but I do commute out of DEN. If this is old news, I apologize for showing up late to the party. But unless there is more to the story, this has me concerned for multiple reasons.
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