Originally Posted by Check Essential

They weren't stupid to try it. Management and ALPA didn't object.
Its the ordinary line pilots who are insisting that the contract be enforced.
We may or may not succeed in forcing ALPA to act.
Moak doesn't want this battle. So far, he's been able to just ignore the rank and file. Some of us have been yelling about this since the day RAH bought Frontier and Midwest out of bankruptcy. Its hard to generate enough pressure with limited communication tools and the general level of apathy out there.

This time might be different though.
ALPA's been insisting RAH is "not a single carrier" for a long time but this NMB ruling saying that they are has a lot of people taking a second look.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Mainline pilots who have been around a long time, say 2 or 3 decades, have a lot of opinions just the same as a 10 year RJ pilot would in comparison to a new hire RJ pilot.

So let me just turn this around slightly, not every major pilot voted yes to scope erosion for pay nor is every regional pilot an ipod loving, no-hat wearing, 300-hour wonderkid from Embry Riddle Daytona Beach who thinks the world owes him a jet. Not every contract with scope erosion was signed with the promise of pay raises either btw, some were but if you remember the famous line "we have to pass the law to find out what's in the law." Fog of war, apathy, not knowing the implications and I'm sure a lot of other stuff goes into a contract. Seems to happen every time at every airline... imho.

What is going on, whether you look at the Delta Pilots Association thread or Latest and Greatest about Delta is you will see guys from up and down the seniority list at Delta fighting the organization that continues to negotiate TA's and promote contracts as "sign this because this is the best we can get and if you say no I'm really scared what might happen but I can guarantee it won't be better." Guys say they heard that in 1996 and to an extent in 2008, but I also heard it during Coex's negotiations. Ironic eh? Same exact "this is the best, doom and gloom if you don't sign" thing.

The one organization that represents both the airline pilots and outsourced airline pilots is supposed to protect the interests of all. So before pilots are blamed, take a look at D.C. where the former President of ALPA was making $503,000 a year to put an end to lithium batteries in the cockpit or something.

Now I know this differs from what I wrote above about even ALPA saying RAH was STS. I think that's profound, but it's because they were looking out for the interests of Midwest pilots. But we'll take that plus the other evidence and expect those who are in elected power to run with it.

For more info: http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2011/38n039.pdf

Originally Posted by cornbeef007

Comair went on strike, because they wanted to raise the bar(which they did). This action in turn hurt Delta mainline and Comair pilots are now a black sheep in the eyes of many Delta pilots.

Originally Posted by trojancmh

now what's stopping alpa from going for the jugular?

Originally Posted by Jay5150

Hold on now. The Comair strike had nothing to do with any ill will that Delta pilots may have against Comair pilots.

You shouldn't use things to support your position that are patently false. The bad blood is for reasons completely unrelated to any strike.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Uh... really? Please enlighten me then, because it was JC Lawson and the throwing into the street of our furloughees that caused the bad blood... and their strike was at the center of this hurricane.

Originally Posted by Check Essential

Moak doesn't want this battle. So far, he's been able to just ignore the rank and file. Some of us have been yelling about this since the day RAH bought Frontier and Midwest out of bankruptcy. Its hard to generate enough pressure with limited communication tools and the general level of apathy out there.

Originally Posted by Jay5150

Hold on now. The Comair strike had nothing to do with any ill will that Delta pilots may have against Comair pilots.
... The bad blood is for reasons completely unrelated to any strike.

Originally Posted by Jay5150

The bad blood comes from Lawson, furloughees (I was one), RJDC and such. Not because we were upset that they went on strike and "hurt Delta".

Originally Posted by TenYearsGone

Lawson

Originally Posted by Hetman

If memory serves, did not the rift between Comair and Delta arise over a proposed flowback of furloughed Delta guys into Comair? I know it is a lot more complicated than that, but wasn't that at the heart of the controvery?

Here's my sarcastic take from learning about this on APC in the last couple years:
Comair/Delta had a policy where new hires had to resign their seniority. Comair/Delta did not offer Delta furloughees relief from this policy. As an unnecessary poke in the eye, the Comair MEC chair (JC Lawson) wrote a tragic letter of unsupport and suggested further negotiations with DALPA before he would push Delta/Comair into reconsidering their position. Apparently every Comair pilot read his draft copy, agreed it was a good idea, and told him to send it. Because the MEC chair only does what 100% of the pilots want him to. Thus the bad blood.

Regardless of the details, it was a mainline v regional fight that got really nasty, dragged on for years and still carries bad blood with it.