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Old 04-08-2011, 11:04 AM   #21  
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Says the 747 Captain Just saying...
None of us start out as 747 captains. I started out as a happy new hire, and ended up furloughed and flat broke. Yet I still wouldn't work under any terms and especially not if it ruins my chosen profession. If you actually read what I've posted...you'd have known that.

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Old 04-08-2011, 11:09 AM   #22  
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The mainline-regional pilot situation today is nothing more than a multi-headed monster wielding a lot of double edged swords.

We had a discussion about this on L&G., not every RJ pilot wants to be a lifer nor was every one of them hired when there were RJs around. Not every mainline pilot condoned scope erosion for pay or size-of-jet pride. Some RJ pilots want to be lifers, some mainline pilots would rather slit their wrist then flying a non-Boeing.

All of that said, RAH pilots can't scope themselves. Even if they could, someone would replace them before midnight. RAH and BB are going to do what is in their self interest and if that includes gaming the system on the whole multi-certificate stuff then more power to them for trying.

It's our job, as mainline pilots, to scope our flying and catch RAH/BB in violation of our scope. No hard feelings and really don't expect an apology either but it is what is in our self-interest and probably in the interest of a vast majority of pilots, including RAH pilots.

But will that mean these jets and the flying go back to mainline? Nope. But one avenue of circumventing the contract dies and that's the goal here for those who are in it for the long term and who don't want to work the fields but own the farm.

Unfortunately, that means fighting against BOD's who push for more outsourcing, unions who push for more outsourcing for political and financial gain and pilots who hope for more outsourcing or would sign off on it.

Join the Carl Spackler Political Action Committee, fight em' all.
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:10 AM   #23  
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Says the 747 Captain Just saying...
A 747 Captain that is involved on the low end scope fight. Something that is truly vital to have as everyone assumes that only new hires care about scope stuff, after they get senior or on the big equipment all they want is pay.

Good to have as many WB pilots we can get for such a fight and truth is, a lot are involved.
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:12 AM   #24  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
None of us start out as 747 captains. I started out as a happy new hire, and ended up furloughed and flat broke. Yet I still wouldn't work under any terms and especially not if it ruins my chosen profession. If you actually read what I've posted...you'd have known that.

Carl
Well, I re-read your post and this is what I got out of it:

1: By working for a regional, you are running this profession into ruins.
2: It's better to feed your family by working anywhere else other than a regional. Can't get the corporate job, how about Taco Bell. Anywhere but a regional.
3: It's better to struggle, be hungry and possibly homeless than to take a job at a regional because god forbid you cause the major airline pilot guy his job.

Am I close?
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:14 AM   #25  
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Just went to the Frontier website and looks like their hiring FO's.. but when you click on the link, you wind up applying at RAH... what's the deal, and more importantly, what's the pay?? lol
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:16 AM   #26  
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This is illustrative of a HUGE problem for the pilot profession. "We have to do what we have to do to pay the bills..." Really? Even if it means your actions are shrinking the very companies that you hope to join one day? How do you justify your actions that keep food on your table, but require furloughs from the majors? Don't the food on THOSE guys tables count?

I had been furloughed 4 times by 1982 when American Airlines sent me a note to come and interview for a pilot slot under their all new "B scale." When I found out what a B scale meant, I turned down the interview. I REALLY needed the work, but I found a corporate job instead. If you're not prepared to do that, you're probably dooming yourself to be a regional lifer. But more importantly, your work is destroying a once proud profession by agreeing to work under any terms.



Even if it means furloughing a major guy whose flying you accepted as outsourced flying? Will you really do anything for money?



When you get a call from a major? Don't you see that your current actions are all but preventing that from ever happening?

Carl
The one thing I would wish for, if I was a regional pilot, was that there was a regional turboprop operation worth going to. Get paid to fly, upgrade, run away asap. But now regionals are years and years to upgrade while flying mainline equipment and turboprop pay. In a way I see the merits of Great Lakes, pay sucks but hey its not replacement flying, it's turboprops doing nothing but hard core flying and it used to be at least quick upgrades and thus quick exits.
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:22 AM   #27  
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Well, I re-read your post and this is what I got out of it:

1: By working for a regional, you are running this profession into ruins.
That's correct. It may not have been the case decades ago, but it damn sure is now. You'll understand it when your pay is seen as too high, and your job is outsourced to the next guy from another pilot puppy mill who will do your job to gain experience. Experience needed so he can hire on with a big regional some day. Then you'll get it...maybe.

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2: It's better to feed your family by working anywhere else other than a regional. Can't get the corporate job, how about Taco Bell. Anywhere but a regional.
Not always true. But it IS true if your hope is to get to a major some day. The work you're doing is slowing the growth of the majors, and as such, your chances of ever working for a major. Do you not see that?

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3: It's better to struggle, be hungry and possibly homeless than to take a job at a regional because god forbid you cause the major airline pilot guy his job.
That is exactly correct. It's what I did when I was furloughed. I actually worked a construction job in California for a while and made pretty good money. It never caused another pilot to get furloughed. Yes...God forbid I would ever have done something like that.

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Old 04-08-2011, 11:23 AM   #28  
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A 747 Captain that is involved on the low end scope fight. Something that is truly vital to have as everyone assumes that only new hires care about scope stuff, after they get senior or on the big equipment all they want is pay.

Good to have as many WB pilots we can get for such a fight and truth is, a lot are involved.
Don't fool yourself FTB. Carl and his ilk don't give a wit about scope at our end. He is just using the issue to bludgeon ALPA in their power grab masquerading as DPA. Remember it was his demographic that voted to create Compas in order to save their pensions. I'd trust Jimmy Hoffa before I'd trust him.
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:36 AM   #29  
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Don't fool yourself FTB. Carl and his ilk don't give a wit about scope at our end. He is just using the issue to bludgeon ALPA in their power grab masquerading as DPA.
My posts on the importance of scope defense go way back before DPA was even thought about. But I know facts like that won't disuade you from an adamant opinion. Maybe you can post another stock chart of RAH and tell us how much the stock has appreciated.

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Remember it was his demographic that voted to create Compas in order to save their pensions.
That contract was (sadly) voted in by a large percentage. A large percentage means by definition that it cannot be just one demographic. Many votes were gained from very junior people because of the no-furlough clause.

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I'd trust Jimmy Hoffa before I'd trust him.
You're just mad at me because I'm always turning the hose on you or trying to blow you up. Nothing personal.

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Old 04-08-2011, 11:39 AM   #30  
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