View Poll Results: Delta pilots, for or against Trip Parking?
I am totally for Trip Parking!
13
13.40%
I am totally against Trip Parking!
73
75.26%
I'm not a Delta pilot, I'm just here for the pictures...
11
11.34%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll
Delta Trip Parking
05-31-2011, 08:59 PM
#22
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by Going2Baja
FTB - thanks for the info...here's my NO to trip parking. But I still want pilot to pilot swap out of base.
Baja.
Baja.
Why couldn't a Seattle guy bid a New York trip on the initial monthly bid?
06-01-2011, 03:22 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Baja,
Trip parking reduces the number of pilots required in a category. It stunts movement. It encourages MDs.
As to out of base swaps, here is the ramification. I am ATL 88 B on reserve bidding in near 80'%. If I bid off to ATL 73N B I'll be in the bottom 3%. If I bid NYC 73N B, I can hold a line. So if I do that I can put all my trips up for pickup and drop as many as possible then go and pick up trips in ATL and therein have an ATL line jumping ahead of pilots nearly 800-900 numbers ahead of me who cannot hold a line.
That would circumvent seniority and lots and lots of people would do such a thing. I know people who commute from ATL to fly out of NYC, now they could have trips out of ATL overnight.
And if you couple trip parking with that, the NYC guys would have more incentive to pick up trips from the ATL commuters.
It'd be a mess and detrimental imho.
FTB
Trip parking reduces the number of pilots required in a category. It stunts movement. It encourages MDs.
As to out of base swaps, here is the ramification. I am ATL 88 B on reserve bidding in near 80'%. If I bid off to ATL 73N B I'll be in the bottom 3%. If I bid NYC 73N B, I can hold a line. So if I do that I can put all my trips up for pickup and drop as many as possible then go and pick up trips in ATL and therein have an ATL line jumping ahead of pilots nearly 800-900 numbers ahead of me who cannot hold a line.
That would circumvent seniority and lots and lots of people would do such a thing. I know people who commute from ATL to fly out of NYC, now they could have trips out of ATL overnight.
And if you couple trip parking with that, the NYC guys would have more incentive to pick up trips from the ATL commuters.
It'd be a mess and detrimental imho.
FTB
I can agree with your scenario if we were talking about OOB Swap With The Pot. If you are only swapping OOB between pilots, you'd have to find a senior ATL pilot who would want to swap trips with you. I can't envision a situation where the ATL pilot would want to swap an entire month. If he wanted NYC trips he would bid NYC and have even more seniority.
The simplest solution to trip parking is to have the monthly limit apply to swaps just like white slips.
06-01-2011, 05:01 AM
#24
veut gagner à la loterie
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Wilbur Wright
FTB,
I can agree with your scenario if we were talking about OOB Swap With The Pot. If you are only swapping OOB between pilots, you'd have to find a senior ATL pilot who would want to swap trips with you. I can't envision a situation where the ATL pilot would want to swap an entire month. If he wanted NYC trips he would bid NYC and have even more seniority.
The simplest solution to trip parking is to have the monthly limit apply to swaps just like white slips.
I can agree with your scenario if we were talking about OOB Swap With The Pot. If you are only swapping OOB between pilots, you'd have to find a senior ATL pilot who would want to swap trips with you. I can't envision a situation where the ATL pilot would want to swap an entire month. If he wanted NYC trips he would bid NYC and have even more seniority.
The simplest solution to trip parking is to have the monthly limit apply to swaps just like white slips.
Even if I started today I could pick up 40 hours off the ATL 73N B crew swap board as pick-up only. So thats 2 4-days I don't have to commute to NYC for. Had I done this last month I might have done even better.
I guess I should say, I couldn't expect to have every trip in ATL per month but if you could go from commuting to NYC for every trip to just maybe 1 or so, that's the win.
06-01-2011, 05:28 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
In base, out of base, I don't care. (as a temporary fix) I propose a max pickup of ALV +15 for whiteys and ALV +20 for swap board/swap with friend.
The REAL issue is more time being flown on average per month by the same number or less pilots.
The above is a symptom of post bankruptcy pay and pension termination forcing guys to max out whenever they can in order to makeup for shortfalls in the "home" budget.
The cure to that sickness is a return to non-bankrputcy pay rates (to provide a commensurate level of pay) combined with the return of the monthly cap (to prevent the "more flying with less pilots" problem).
Have you given your Top 10 "Contact Want List" to a P2P yet?
The REAL issue is more time being flown on average per month by the same number or less pilots.
The above is a symptom of post bankruptcy pay and pension termination forcing guys to max out whenever they can in order to makeup for shortfalls in the "home" budget.
The cure to that sickness is a return to non-bankrputcy pay rates (to provide a commensurate level of pay) combined with the return of the monthly cap (to prevent the "more flying with less pilots" problem).
Have you given your Top 10 "Contact Want List" to a P2P yet?
06-01-2011, 05:47 AM
#26
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
I have 'spoken with my LEC Rep.' on this issue.
He said since the SOT just did a whole lot of work re. LOA 29, and trip parking was not addressed at that time, it would continue to be allowed, at least until Section 6 negotiations.
So, there you go.
He said since the SOT just did a whole lot of work re. LOA 29, and trip parking was not addressed at that time, it would continue to be allowed, at least until Section 6 negotiations.
So, there you go.
06-01-2011, 10:44 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Wilbur,
Even if I started today I could pick up 40 hours off the ATL 73N B crew swap board as pick-up only. So thats 2 4-days I don't have to commute to NYC for. Had I done this last month I might have done even better.
I guess I should say, I couldn't expect to have every trip in ATL per month but if you could go from commuting to NYC for every trip to just maybe 1 or so, that's the win.
Even if I started today I could pick up 40 hours off the ATL 73N B crew swap board as pick-up only. So thats 2 4-days I don't have to commute to NYC for. Had I done this last month I might have done even better.
I guess I should say, I couldn't expect to have every trip in ATL per month but if you could go from commuting to NYC for every trip to just maybe 1 or so, that's the win.
Okay, I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking you to educate me. If you did what you say, who did you harm? What if swaps/drops were for in-base pilots only for the first 24 hours? The ATL based pilots would have had the option of picking up those trips before the NYC carpetbaggers.
06-01-2011, 10:58 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
Yes, FTB could "possibly" do what he described. His schedule, instead of being relatively senior in NYC, would be flying to the garden paradises of UIO, MAO, GYE and MEX. Then again he could fly his senior NYC trips that would be commutable and to places like SAN, PDX, SFO, LAS, etc. Honestly, if you're willing to commute of out base, have all your trips taken off your line and then fly a full month of UIO, MAO and MEX, have a ball!!!! You could back door seniority me all you want!
06-01-2011, 12:01 PM
#30
veut gagner à la loterie
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Wilbur Wright
FTB,
Okay, I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking you to educate me. If you did what you say, who did you harm? What if swaps/drops were for in-base pilots only for the first 24 hours? The ATL based pilots would have had the option of picking up those trips before the NYC carpetbaggers.
Okay, I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking you to educate me. If you did what you say, who did you harm? What if swaps/drops were for in-base pilots only for the first 24 hours? The ATL based pilots would have had the option of picking up those trips before the NYC carpetbaggers.
I'm trying to show an example of how it could be cheated. Really my example uses me and 80ktsclamp who is senior to me by 800 or so numbers. Lets say I wanted the 737 but didn't want reserve, then what I could do is bid NYC 737 and then try to swap back in to ATL trips. Meanwhile ATL pilots senior to me would be on reserve while I fly 70, 80, 90 or so hours.
It's just an example of how the swaps could go wrong. But I understand how baja would see it as "hey, my buddy is ATL ER and I'm NYC ER (making the categories up) and I can actually swap with the person going with him on his next trip and instead I go and we go have a blast, but scheduling won't let me, what gives?!?"
But I'm thinking of the cut throat types. The ones who wouldn't do it once. I'm using myself as the example but I'm content where I am.
Now someone might come in and say per PWA XX.XX.paragraph.X. even if we had base swaps you couldn't do that because of ABC reasons. But for now I think my cheatin' the system idea is plausible and detrimental.
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