RockChalk

How do you think the industry would be different, especially at the majors, if seniority was not the basis of everything? In Corporate America, you never hear people talk about their Date of Hire when it comes to trying to move up the proverbial food chain. I'd be curious to hear how it would be if that was the case at the airlines. It's an interesting thought to consider, and I look forward to your views.

80ktsClamp

It would never work for a pilot job... all line pilots are held to the same qualification and training standards. The only "merit" jobs are line check airmen, sim instructors, and management pilots.

Having rank by merit for a standard line pilot is a terrible idea in that it would very easily degrade into pilots cutting corners to get the job done to impress the managers.

Flyby1206

If there was no seniority, then it would be much easier to switch between carriers. If Airline A closed your base, you could jump ship to Airline B and be based at home. If Airline A started cutting pay and benefits then you could jump to Airline C and get a pay raise.

The seniority system has been created by unions, so that they have a reason to exist. If the responsibility was on the company to provide excellent pay/QOL to attract employees then there would be little need for a union.

80ktsClamp

Agreed... BUT, how would you suggest to do advancement?

galaxy flyer

While 80ktsClamp is quite correct and that is the history of the industry, a counterargument can be made that seniority has had lots of downsides during deregulation. Seniority makes mobility between airlines impossible in the case of bankruptcy; pilots are tied to the airline hired on with, perhaps 20 years before. It becomes a barricade to a career. Seniority systems are the core of merger disputes on integration; careers can be devastated by nasty integration battles. Witness: US Airways and AmWest. Pilots have gone to their graves complaining about integration schemes of the UAL/Capitol merger.

No ideas on a fix

GF

BlueMoon

Doesn't Cathay Pacific have an "upgrade panel"? Something like Check airmen and Instructors conduct an interview which you need to pass to be given an upgrade?

BoilerUP

You really cannot apply "corporate America" rules (which is rife with politics, ass-kissing, favoritism, nepotism, etc.) to the airline industry - pilots (FAs, mechanics, etc) are labor, not really different than an assembly line worker. Instead of making widgets, they make airplanes move.

Given the scale and nature of the airline industry, there are dozens if not hundreds of reasons why it simply will not work.

The reality of that quote is this: if the company provided excellent pay/QOL, there would be no need for a union. Unfortunately, pilots being labor are viewed by most airline management teams as replaceable financial liabilities, and not human assets. Because of this failure to properly manage & exploit the asset that is human capital, companies in general and airlines specifically get the unions they deserve...

Surprise

National Seniority List. No nepotism within a given company, but you retain your free agency and can switch companies as it suits you. Actually making it happen would be the hard part.

usmc-sgt

And you thought East/West had a rough go at the ISL. Imagine trying to make one list for every 121 carrier. East/West threw chairs...people would bring bats and knives to this fight.

Flyby1206

Id like to see all part 121 training conducted by a Flightsafety-type company, and have standardized flows/profiles for a given equip. If you fly the 737 for Airline A then it would be the same operationally as Airline B. If you were flying the same equip previously then you would only go through indoc at a new airline.

Advancement would be tougher than it is today. If airlines need 737 CAs they would put out a job listing and anyone can apply. If they hire someone without 737 experience then they have to send them to the Flightsafety-type training, but if they hire an existing 737 CA/FO then it wouldnt be required.


But... we are replaceable. We arent all special little snowflakes, we are units on a balance sheet in the cog of the industry. There are hundreds of jobs in this country which are all 'replaceable' but are non-union positions. Unions dont stop labor from being exploited, they merely provide a framework for that to happen legally.