TillerEnvy

Did you look at the US Airways Non-rev travel guide??

It's pretty straight forward in regards to all non-revs, including the js, which is also non-revving if you can't get a seat in the back. Looks like that evil Republic pilot was correct.

For SA5's (non-wholly owned express carriers), here's what it says:

Boarding by date of hire (year/month/day), then check−in time.

trent890

To hopefully add clarity to your situation, some text from the Flight Operations Manual which describes the Flightdeck Jumpseat boarding categories and priorities at US Airways:

9.3 Boarding Categories

The two boarding categories are space positive and space available and within each are sub-categories. Both categories and sub-categories have their own priority system.

• Note •

Boarding categories apply to mainline operations only.
When riding on Express or affiliates, their jumpseat policies apply.

9.3.1 Priority System.

TillerEnvy

Trent...according to the Airways Non-Rev Guide, it states otherwise. Here's an example. Say I'm listed (S5 category) as a non-rev for a flight and another S5 shows up from another non owned express carrier, but is not listed. The flight fills up, but because he/she filled out the js form and I didn't, do I not get the js, even though I have an earlier hire date? Pretty much all of the gate agents I've encountered in 5 years have given priority to the hire date, which to me, they're suppose to.

Ultimately it'll come down to the CA if he/she wants to do something different, but that's how I read it. I always list myself in the back and get moved up to the js if it fills up, assuming no mainline pilots need it.

trent890

I think this statement above appears to cause the majority of your misunderstanding. The JS is NOT "included" as part of non-revving. If you are non-revving, and you can't get a seat in the back, you MIGHT be able to jumpseat as a courtesy to continue your non-rev travel. Two examples:

1) I'm going to non-rev back home from vacation in a t-shirt, shorts, and sandals. Whoops, a 2004 DOH doesn't get me the last seat in the cabin. OK, I'm the only pilot at the gate, so I'll just request the jumpseat. What? I'm not allowed to jumpseat because of my clothing attire? But TillerEnvy told me that the JS is also non-revving if I can't get a seat in the back!

2) I've just been furloughed, but I'm going to use my travel benefits to see my buddies in CLT before unemployment kicks in. Oh damn. My 2004 DOH missed the last seat in the cabin once again. No sweat, as a furloughed mainline pilot I'll just sign up for the A1 jumpseat priority. Huh? What do you mean I have to be an active pilot in order to jumpseat? TillerEnvy said that the JS is also non-revving!

Which policy do you recommend that the Captain follow with regards to the priority of who sits in the jumpseat? The DOH policy listed in the non-rev Travel Guide that applies to ALL employees and is only found online on the company website? Or, the policy listed in Chapter 9 of the Flight Operations Manual, which is specifically titled "Flightdeck Jumpseat", and just so happens to be located in hard copy format in the cockpit shipset binder just outboard of his left leg?

No, generally you would NOT get the JS, even though you have an earlier hire date. Mainline could care less about which of the two of you were hired first at barbie jet airlines. If you list for a flight, and the other pilot does not; but they request the jumpseat, and you do not; then if the flight fills up, the other pilot gets the jumpseat because of their earlier check-in, and you get left behind to contemplate your earlier hire date.

The gate agent has no advance knowledge when you are listed as a non-rev, that you are also jumpseat eligible if the cabin seats fill up. As a courtesy, once it is determined that you are a jumpseat eligible employee, most gate agents will clear you to the jumpseat if the flight is looking tight, even though you did not list for the jumpseat just so you can be on your way and continue your travels without being left at the gate.

When I used to non-rev as an express pilot, I would always verify with the gate agent at the departure gate. First off, to make sure that my initial check-in either online or at the kiosk had correctly placed me on the standby list. Secondly, to let them know that I was a pilot and that I would like to request the jumpseat if it didn't look like I was going to get a seat in the cabin. And finally, once I got a jumpseat request form in my hands to fill out, to take advantage of the earliest possible check-in time among any other employees in my jumpseat sub-category. This is very important when some of the captains at my express carrier (that would be in the same jumpseat sub-category) had DOH before I was even born. Earliest jumpseat check-in within each sub-category wins every time!

frankwasright

"1) I'm going to non-rev back home from vacation in a t-shirt, shorts, and sandals. Whoops, a 2004 DOH doesn't get me the last seat in the cabin. OK, I'm the only pilot at the gate, so I'll just request the jumpseat. What? I'm not allowed to jumpseat because of my clothing attire? But TillerEnvy told me that the JS is also non-revving if I can't get a seat in the back."

I would advise against this.While waiting for the release to print in DCA,a guy shows up dressed as you describe.The gate agent asked him "Do you have any other shoes ? You can't non-rev in sandals." He didn't get on.I know the non-rev dress code was relaxed when the meger happened,but if you really,REALLY,need to get home wear first class attire or better yet,your uniform.I know it's a pain,but getting stuck is a bigger pain.

BlueSkiesAhead

Not sure where you decided that the non-rev travel guide had anything to do with jumpseating, but it does not. The post above which highlighted an excerpt directly from the FOM anwers my question completely. The next time I have an issue I will just direct the agent to ask the Captain what his FOM says about the matter.

trent890

I gave that first example to help clarify for TillerEnvy that the jumpseat is not automatically included as a non-rev benefit when you can't get a seat in the cabin. Just because an employee meets the non-rev dress code, doesn't mean that it's good enough to be seated in the flightdeck jumpseat if the cabin fills up.

I did something close to this once on my own express carrier. I was non-revving home in a un-tucked collared shirt, shorts, and athletic shoes. The cabin seats fill up, so I request the jumpseat. I get out to the plane, and just as I'm about to be seated in the jumpseat, the gate agent comes onboard and tells me I can't sit in the cockpit dressed in shorts. Luckily, there was a deadheading company pilot in uniform seated in the cabin who swapped seats with me so I could continue on my way and not get left at the gate. But overall, you're quite correct. If you really need to get where you're going, wear first-class attire or better yet your uniform!

Sniper

Exactly.

No airline (call me out if I'm wrong) uses DOH for jumpseating (they do for non-reving, which is not the same as jumpseating, though Continental has made it seem this way to the average agent and pilot by the way they clear jumpseats at the gate - that's another topic for another day).

All airlines use use pilot seniority for jumpseat priority, not DOH, for their own pilots on their own metal (and first come first serve for everyone else, within priority groups).

Think about a merger with an integrated list - DOH doesn't necessarily translate to seniority. A quick perusal of the disagreement between the US Airways East and West pilots should be evidence enough of this.

It is impossible for the agent or the PIC to ascertain who is senior, unless the computer has this information. The computer often only has your seniority list info if it is owned by your airline. For mainline, this isn't a huge deal. Most of their flights are operated out of gates that have their company's computer available. For Express . . . it is an issue. You have an agent who is likely untrained in your company's procedures, so give the agent some assistance.

Please, if you are confused about this stuff, contact your jumpseat committee, especially if you're a CA. It is your responsibility to determine priority on your jumpseat, not the gate agent's.

ground stop

Best post in this thread.

trent890

Not entirely true for US Airways mainline pilots on our own metal. We have the ability to make a primary or secondary jumpseat listing up to one week before departure. Every mainline pilot has the ability to make a phone call for this jumpseat listing, from the top pilot all the way down to the bottom of the seniority list.

At the departure gate, with a prior jumpseat listing it doesn't matter which mainline pilot checked-in first, or who is the more senior pilot, or who has an earlier date of hire. For the A1 mainline jumpseat priority at US Airways, it's more about the advance planning than it is about pilot seniority in order to get priority for the jumpseat on our own metal.