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US/DL Slot Swap Approved

Old 10-12-2011, 01:04 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid View Post
Gloopy,
I don't think DAL should make Luv a focus city, I think Allegiant should and we should help them get those gates.

SWA would be begging us to come to LUV if that was on the table.
Yeah but Allegiant isn't a serious player. If they go into LUV they will fly to tiny markets in the midwest and a few serious markets, usually a few days a week. I doubt SWA will worry too much about that.

If we came in with some serious slots we could cover all their best routes as well as feeding our vastly superior network through our massive hubs and adding global international options and first class as well.

Some fanboys (Clark Howard) think SWA will dominate ATL because everything they touch turns to gold but I think we will do extremely well against them. Extremely well, especially compared to the much cheaper competitor they are replacing, and we were doing quite well against them especially of late.

Its about time airlines started fighting back especially to counter their insanely effective lobbying efforts. The ATC and FAA preferences need to end at all levels, and when they squeal about slot fairness LUV should be on the table in a major way. We can coexist quite comfortably, but they have to respect their boundaries. If they don't, they can experience the same level of margin crushing predatory ruthlessness they themselves have enjoyed a monopoly on especially for the bulk of the lase decade.

Their roller coaster is still climbing, but its starting to crest the hill.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
Some fanboys (Clark Howard) think SWA will dominate ATL because everything they touch turns to gold but I think we will do extremely well against them. Extremely well, especially compared to the much cheaper competitor they are replacing, and we were doing quite well against them especially of late.
You are right here, just look at PHL and the whooping they took there.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by iceman49 View Post
Look at the National/Pan Am merger...Pan Am had a large number of pilots on furlough, they were not able to come back and displace working pilots....even those on the bottom of the list.
Not according to the east pilots, in fact the list they hope to impose on west pilots places furloughed east pilots on top of west captains, pan am/national did not involve the great usapa.
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:26 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
As for SWA being "too busy" for another integration move, JB is 100% non union. That puts SWA more in the driver's seat than any other move they could make short of picking up the pieces of a legacy liquidation. That appears unlikely at best. SWA has an amemic and flimsy presence in the most crucial market in the country and they are out of airspeed and ideas getting that organically. JB is the only realistic way for them to be a player in the number one market in the nation. If they can't/won't/don't then they will likely forever be a distant 4th or 5th rate choice in the number 1 market, which is fine with me. I just don't see them being OK with that.
JetBlue is a whole different animal (No Pun intended Frontier folks) than AirTran. A320 and E190 fleet, projected to be 170+A320/A320neo/A321, and 75 E190 by 2015, $6.5 Billion in Assets, 1.2 Billion Unrestricted Cash. Very expensive deal. Please tell me how SWA is going to integrate 2 totally different fleets for SWA, when they don't even want the B717.

They get nothing from the deal other than the access to the New York market. Not to mention the fact that New Yorkers love JetBlue. Great service, 6 or 7 years of JD powers best domestic, TV's, WiFi, SatRadio, Best Legroom of any domestic in coach, it is a customer service value product, totally different from the SWA model. A SWA/B6 tie up would totally change their business model, and would eat up a bunch of their cash. Just don't see it happening...but hey, you never know in this industry.
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Old 10-12-2011, 04:08 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
LCC may just want to get this deal done to get on with the next deal they have been sitting on since this thing was announced in 2009. It really has slowed/stopped the M and A's that involve DAL and LCC.

Once this deal is done, I see a few more tie ups.
AB76ERPilot,

Your post is right on the mark with regard to M&A activity being quashed by the uncertainty over the LCC swap. I don't think American works in whole, but Delta would certainly play for the Latin America traffic (heck, we might even compete for that). What will drive M&A for American will probably be heavily influenced by OneWorld's network players.

As for Delta ... it is hard to say what we're looking at, but clearly we are not being managed for the status quo. Too much is getting cut, too much is getting aligned. There sure are some convenient route transfers to Alaska. Hawaiian can be had for less than the cost of a single 777. I could see a Hawaiian play as Asia recovers (China's still scorching hot and the very factors that call for a China slow down will enable their middle class to travel).

I've given up calling for LCC's demise. They are too heavily subsidized by their employees working for nearly free to be criticized, I mean, analyzed, using metrics employed elsewhere.

Just an opinion. ... but I'm not looking forward to my next displacement in the name of keeping labor peace.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:48 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Clear Right View Post

They get nothing from the deal other than the access to the New York market.
That's everything in the deal. All the rest is a minor logistical annoyance compared to the biggest domestic airline in the galaxy being locked out of the biggest and most important domestic market.

And airlines or investor groups don't have to pay in full to "buy" another airline. The cash JB has is cash the new entity would also have. That doesn't go away nor does it have to be paid for. All that has to happen is a stock deal that pleases enough shareholders sitting on a volitile yet flat 4 and a half dollar stock just enough of a premium to get the board to sign off on it. There are numerous other ways it could happen as well, both in a hostile takeover or an amicable deal (to management).

And I've never heard of customer service awards being able to stop a merger/buyout/takeover/fragmentation. Ever. Kudos for having a great product (and JB really does) but NYC is locked out to outsiders now. All anyone new can get is a token presence. AA doesn't have what they need in JFK and SWA could really use a big NYC presence. LCC just divested a massive amount of NYC flying. There are many factors at work here and no matter how you connect the dots, JB is in play one way or another. How exactly it shakes out is anyone's guess, but the odds of something happening are far greater than the odds of nothing happening with the smallest "big 6" airline and its dominant, slot and facility controlled NYC crown jewel.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:51 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
This is the same group that got EWR slots b/c UA and CAL were merging, moved into LUV knowing the airport was prohibited from serving most domestic markets and now has essentially eliminated those same restrictions, and appears to have undermined the very intent of federal legislation designed to ensure merged employee groups are treated equitably.

They'll get more LGA and DCA slots too out of this too. Just wait.

Pretty impressive, honestly.

Why would US Airways give up their superior LGA presence to a competitor to get more of a lock on DCA - except for a merger set-up? Even if it is for a merger, who wants DCA over LGA?
Parker explained this recently for the employees. Because of our International network out of LGA, we just don't make money out of there. Whereas Reagan is a money maker. Parker wants a merger, but is trying to position the carrier to survive as a stand alone, so we are still around when a merger opportunity presents itself. He won't touch American with a ten foot long pole until it restructures it's debt and costs with bankruptcy.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:26 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by GQpilot View Post
Parker explained this recently for the employees. Because of our International network out of LGA, we just don't make money out of there. Whereas Reagan is a money maker. Parker wants a merger, but is trying to position the carrier to survive as a stand alone, so we are still around when a merger opportunity presents itself. He won't touch American with a ten foot long pole until it restructures it's debt and costs with bankruptcy.
The rest of what you say makes a lot of sense, but can you explain the bold? Did you mean PHL?
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:47 AM
  #49  
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He meant because there is no international network out of LGA.

US Air's network is being managed for a merger, just as Delta's is. When you see them aligning routes, it gets scary for the line employees.

With the 757, Delta could do some close in international out of LGA. New York needs some form of a convenient connection from LGA to JFK.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar View Post
He meant because there is no international network out of LGA.
Either that or that they had one out of PHL for int'l and dom that was siphoning off the demand for flights through LGA....
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