United Pilots - Industry Laughing Stock?
10-08-2006, 06:34 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Wish I knew the answer!
Originally Posted by Low & Slow
You're right laughing stock may be a stretch, but is was meant to be a hypothetical question and not an accusation, thus the question mark. Like I said, I have respect for the UAL pilot's I know (including the one who forwarded that list).
As an outsider looking in, I find it unconcienable that with furloughed pilots on the street, a UAL pilot wearing a union pin could waive the contract, pick up extra time (you call it jr/sr manning?), or go that extra mile to (i.e. bend the contract to the companies favor) to accomplish the mission.
Speaking of the things that I didn't get right, that list was reportedly authored by one of the UAL MEC members. I thought the MEC might have a handle on the conditions at the airline, maybe not.
This week your CEO and VP negotiated a contract extension that included pension enhancements and a healthy annual raise while pilots continue to eat it. If your not ****ed off at that, your not paying attention.
As an outsider looking in, I find it unconcienable that with furloughed pilots on the street, a UAL pilot wearing a union pin could waive the contract, pick up extra time (you call it jr/sr manning?), or go that extra mile to (i.e. bend the contract to the companies favor) to accomplish the mission.
Speaking of the things that I didn't get right, that list was reportedly authored by one of the UAL MEC members. I thought the MEC might have a handle on the conditions at the airline, maybe not.
This week your CEO and VP negotiated a contract extension that included pension enhancements and a healthy annual raise while pilots continue to eat it. If your not ****ed off at that, your not paying attention.
That list was a part of a council update by a member of the UAL MEC.
Believe me, you make some valid points. Unfortunately, IMO, as a UAL pilot my biggest criticizm of my MEC has been not getting people to pull on the same end of the rope.
While I don't profess to know the absolute intent of the list you posted. I believe that is part of the goal.
Some folks get it quicker than others. Some need a baseball bat between the eyes to wake up and see what is going on.
Tilton, et als, recent raise will hopefully be the catalyst to unify our pilot group again. Of course, as I've told that MEC member that wrote the list, it also takes unified and concise direction from our elected union leaders and may require them to step out onto the ledge somewhat to get it done. This is hopefully that first step.
Frats,
Leefxdwg
10-08-2006, 09:14 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 183
Ual Mgmt
Worst in the undustry...atleast top 2!
I recently heard a UAL pilot talk about merging w/ CAL and he boasted that UAL would controlling...Do UAL pilots really want UAL Mgmt over CAL...not that CAL is perfect...
It is a shame what mgmt has done w/ an excellent airline filled w/ top-notch pilots.
I recently heard a UAL pilot talk about merging w/ CAL and he boasted that UAL would controlling...Do UAL pilots really want UAL Mgmt over CAL...not that CAL is perfect...
It is a shame what mgmt has done w/ an excellent airline filled w/ top-notch pilots.
10-08-2006, 10:35 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,152
Originally Posted by hatetobreakit2u
theres is a certain point where pride takes over and i say id rather take everyone down with me than let the other person win, i wonder just how close some united pilots were to that breaking point
its gets harder when you have a family tho
its gets harder when you have a family tho
I'd say that unless things change radically in 2009, there will be a lot of UAL pilots bringing kerosene and kindling wood to work. The pay and QOL have gotten to the point where we're ready to torch the place.
There isn't a great deal of leverage that we have at the moment; that changes when the contract is up.
10-09-2006, 03:51 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,032
Originally Posted by Andy
I'd say that unless things change radically in 2009, there will be a lot of UAL pilots bringing kerosene and kindling wood to work. The pay and QOL have gotten to the point where we're ready to torch the place.
Unless I'm mistaken, and I certainly could be, you would already have an "open contract" absent the most recent contract.
Big mistake. JMHO.
Last edited by fireman0174; 10-09-2006 at 03:55 AM.
10-09-2006, 10:02 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,152
Originally Posted by fireman0174
Well, there goes your credibility! 
I wasn't on property when it came to vote on C2003; I had already been 'voted off the island.' But I can remember the feeling that United was barely hanging on and might not survive after flying empty planes across the Pacific due to SARS.
When I saw the terms of C2003, I knew that I'd be taking it with no lubricant from my fellow pilots still on property. I don't blame management; they were shrewd enough to get the pilots on property to throw out all work rules so that the pilots would be able to make up any paycuts by working more hours and 'save the pensions.' I was especially beaked about the switch to PBS (preferential bidding system) because I knew that it would reduce pilot headcount by ~5% due to the way that the company could schedule. That's on top of the 15-20% increase in block hours. I looked at the terms of C2003 and knew that I'd be on furlough for at least two extra years due to the work rule changes.
Fortunately, United has a more militant MEC in place, but they have made near zero progress in fixing the heinous work rules.
Are those of us who have spent a lot of time on the street going to be ultra militant when the contract becomes amenable? I think so.
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