Majors not hiring prior to a known shortage..
11-27-2011, 07:41 AM
#1
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Majors not hiring prior to a known shortage..
Mark My Words:
I've got a theory about all this non-hiring just before the shortage. There WILL be a massive shortage due to all the factors we are familiar with. The major airlines will have purposely held off hiring in anticipation of this. Then there WILL be a major disruption to the "flow of commerce" and then they will go to congress "Needing relief" from regulatory hurdles. Then hold on to your hat that they want us to wear to look professional. Everything will be on the table. They will be asking for congressional relief from scope clauses, the FO ATP rule, any new rest requirements that might or might not be in place at that point, and (here is the big one) CABOTAGE! That's right. They will be going after the entire U.S. Airline industry in favor of using other country's airlines to do the flying. They will claim that there was no way they could have predicted these pilot shortages and could not possibly absorb the costs of all this training with out going bankrupt. All along, they will have purposly painted themselves into a corner while maintaining that they were all just too short sighted, stupid and dumb to realise this was coming.
Dumb? ...Dumb like a Fox!
Thoughts?
I've got a theory about all this non-hiring just before the shortage. There WILL be a massive shortage due to all the factors we are familiar with. The major airlines will have purposely held off hiring in anticipation of this. Then there WILL be a major disruption to the "flow of commerce" and then they will go to congress "Needing relief" from regulatory hurdles. Then hold on to your hat that they want us to wear to look professional. Everything will be on the table. They will be asking for congressional relief from scope clauses, the FO ATP rule, any new rest requirements that might or might not be in place at that point, and (here is the big one) CABOTAGE! That's right. They will be going after the entire U.S. Airline industry in favor of using other country's airlines to do the flying. They will claim that there was no way they could have predicted these pilot shortages and could not possibly absorb the costs of all this training with out going bankrupt. All along, they will have purposly painted themselves into a corner while maintaining that they were all just too short sighted, stupid and dumb to realise this was coming.
Dumb? ...Dumb like a Fox!
Thoughts?
11-27-2011, 07:45 AM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,227
Only one problem with that...
Other countries airlines are already desperate for qualified pilots, to the point that they have to offer somewhat better than US domestic airlines to attract western talent. No sign of that changing anytime soon.
I just don't think the airlines are thinking that far ahead...they never have before (in recent memory) so why start now?
Other countries airlines are already desperate for qualified pilots, to the point that they have to offer somewhat better than US domestic airlines to attract western talent. No sign of that changing anytime soon.
I just don't think the airlines are thinking that far ahead...they never have before (in recent memory) so why start now?
11-27-2011, 08:11 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
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Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by Wheel Landing
Mark My Words:
I've got a theory about all this non-hiring just before the shortage. There WILL be a massive shortage due to all the factors we are familiar with. The major airlines will have purposely held off hiring in anticipation of this. Then there WILL be a major disruption to the "flow of commerce" and then they will go to congress "Needing relief" from regulatory hurdles. Then hold on to your hat that they want us to wear to look professional. Everything will be on the table. They will be asking for congressional relief from scope clauses, the FO ATP rule, any new rest requirements that might or might not be in place at that point, and (here is the big one) CABOTAGE! That's right. They will be going after the entire U.S. Airline industry in favor of using other country's airlines to do the flying. They will claim that there was no way they could have predicted these pilot shortages and could not possibly absorb the costs of all this training with out going bankrupt. All along, they will have purposly painted themselves into a corner while maintaining that they were all just too short sighted, stupid and dumb to realise this was coming.
Dumb? ...Dumb like a Fox!
Thoughts?
I've got a theory about all this non-hiring just before the shortage. There WILL be a massive shortage due to all the factors we are familiar with. The major airlines will have purposely held off hiring in anticipation of this. Then there WILL be a major disruption to the "flow of commerce" and then they will go to congress "Needing relief" from regulatory hurdles. Then hold on to your hat that they want us to wear to look professional. Everything will be on the table. They will be asking for congressional relief from scope clauses, the FO ATP rule, any new rest requirements that might or might not be in place at that point, and (here is the big one) CABOTAGE! That's right. They will be going after the entire U.S. Airline industry in favor of using other country's airlines to do the flying. They will claim that there was no way they could have predicted these pilot shortages and could not possibly absorb the costs of all this training with out going bankrupt. All along, they will have purposly painted themselves into a corner while maintaining that they were all just too short sighted, stupid and dumb to realise this was coming.
Dumb? ...Dumb like a Fox!
Thoughts?
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Only one problem with that...
Other countries airlines are already desperate for qualified pilots, to the point that they have to offer somewhat better than US domestic airlines to attract western talent. No sign of that changing anytime soon.
I just don't think the airlines are thinking that far ahead...they never have before (in recent memory) so why start now?
Other countries airlines are already desperate for qualified pilots, to the point that they have to offer somewhat better than US domestic airlines to attract western talent. No sign of that changing anytime soon.
I just don't think the airlines are thinking that far ahead...they never have before (in recent memory) so why start now?
If we are not proactive/defensive, the US Airlines will have much similar fate as compared to the US cruise/shipping industry.
TEN
11-27-2011, 08:15 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Only one problem with that...
Other countries airlines are already desperate for qualified pilots, to the point that they have to offer somewhat better than US domestic airlines to attract western talent. No sign of that changing anytime soon.
I just don't think the airlines are thinking that far ahead...they never have before (in recent memory) so why start now?
Other countries airlines are already desperate for qualified pilots, to the point that they have to offer somewhat better than US domestic airlines to attract western talent. No sign of that changing anytime soon.
I just don't think the airlines are thinking that far ahead...they never have before (in recent memory) so why start now?
11-27-2011, 08:17 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
+1. "One World"
British Airways has started their add campaign to hire pilots via ab-initio or new-hire. I saw one of their adds in back of an Airliner magazine. It basically says that they will need 800 pilots very soon and that there will be big retirements at BA (age 55, full retirement and medical). Ryan Air, Emirates etc, are starting this pipeline to get warm blood in their seats before the crunch.
If we are not proactive/defensive, the US Airlines will have much similar fate as compared to the US cruise/shipping industry.
TEN
British Airways has started their add campaign to hire pilots via ab-initio or new-hire. I saw one of their adds in back of an Airliner magazine. It basically says that they will need 800 pilots very soon and that there will be big retirements at BA (age 55, full retirement and medical). Ryan Air, Emirates etc, are starting this pipeline to get warm blood in their seats before the crunch.
If we are not proactive/defensive, the US Airlines will have much similar fate as compared to the US cruise/shipping industry.
TEN
I heard you have to PAY British Airways for the training. And if you wash out, NO MONEY BACK!!!!
11-27-2011, 08:18 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by Wheel Landing
Mark My Words:
I've got a theory about all this non-hiring just before the shortage. There WILL be a massive shortage due to all the factors we are familiar with. The major airlines will have purposely held off hiring in anticipation of this. Then there WILL be a major disruption to the "flow of commerce" and then they will go to congress "Needing relief" from regulatory hurdles. Then hold on to your hat that they want us to wear to look professional. Everything will be on the table. They will be asking for congressional relief from scope clauses, the FO ATP rule, any new rest requirements that might or might not be in place at that point, and (here is the big one) CABOTAGE! That's right. They will be going after the entire U.S. Airline industry in favor of using other country's airlines to do the flying. They will claim that there was no way they could have predicted these pilot shortages and could not possibly absorb the costs of all this training with out going bankrupt. All along, they will have purposly painted themselves into a corner while maintaining that they were all just too short sighted, stupid and dumb to realise this was coming.
Dumb? ...Dumb like a Fox!
Thoughts?
I've got a theory about all this non-hiring just before the shortage. There WILL be a massive shortage due to all the factors we are familiar with. The major airlines will have purposely held off hiring in anticipation of this. Then there WILL be a major disruption to the "flow of commerce" and then they will go to congress "Needing relief" from regulatory hurdles. Then hold on to your hat that they want us to wear to look professional. Everything will be on the table. They will be asking for congressional relief from scope clauses, the FO ATP rule, any new rest requirements that might or might not be in place at that point, and (here is the big one) CABOTAGE! That's right. They will be going after the entire U.S. Airline industry in favor of using other country's airlines to do the flying. They will claim that there was no way they could have predicted these pilot shortages and could not possibly absorb the costs of all this training with out going bankrupt. All along, they will have purposly painted themselves into a corner while maintaining that they were all just too short sighted, stupid and dumb to realise this was coming.
Dumb? ...Dumb like a Fox!
Thoughts?
11-27-2011, 08:18 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 474
*IF* any shortage does materialize, it won't be the major airlines that will have problems recruiting pilots. So I don't think it will be them trying to get relief on anything. It will probably be Cohen and his merry men.
The problem, if it is a problem, is easily fixable anyway. All they have to do is raise pay and benefits to the point where the profession becomes financially attractive again. They should do that a couple of years before their anticipated shortage to give time for their future pilot candidates to train and gain minimum experience requirements, which we all know will be likely well under 1500 hours after they are done with all the loopholes. They wouldn't even have to raise pay that much, either. I bet all they would have to do is get rid of the food stamp wages they pay their first officers. Raise first officer pay to 40K - $50k per year and that would solve their shortage after a couple of years.
Unfortunately, regional airline management can't see 6 inches past their nose, so they will try everything EXCEPT raising salaries, and of course that will likely not work. They will also wait until the very last minute and of course there won't be anyone in the pipeline to take the jobs they are forced to raise salaries for.
But, of course, throw in a terrorist attack, high oil prices, another recession, etc., and the whole pilot shortage thing becomes moot anyway- at least for a few years.
The problem, if it is a problem, is easily fixable anyway. All they have to do is raise pay and benefits to the point where the profession becomes financially attractive again. They should do that a couple of years before their anticipated shortage to give time for their future pilot candidates to train and gain minimum experience requirements, which we all know will be likely well under 1500 hours after they are done with all the loopholes. They wouldn't even have to raise pay that much, either. I bet all they would have to do is get rid of the food stamp wages they pay their first officers. Raise first officer pay to 40K - $50k per year and that would solve their shortage after a couple of years.
Unfortunately, regional airline management can't see 6 inches past their nose, so they will try everything EXCEPT raising salaries, and of course that will likely not work. They will also wait until the very last minute and of course there won't be anyone in the pipeline to take the jobs they are forced to raise salaries for.
But, of course, throw in a terrorist attack, high oil prices, another recession, etc., and the whole pilot shortage thing becomes moot anyway- at least for a few years.
11-27-2011, 08:34 AM
#8
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Position: 737
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by GlobeTreker
There has never been and never will be a pilot shortage. The majors have never been short of applications. If I were management and I thought there were truly going to be a shortage I would do one of two things.
1st. Scrap all or most 50 seat jets. The staffing ratio for a 50 seat jet is roughly 10 pilots per plane. I would then buy large narowbodies (A320 and 737's) to replace them. Staffing those aircraft may be around the same or higher, but you move 3 times the passengers. Shortage averted.
2nd. I could also start an ab-intio program where I take a gullable 21 year old college grad and make him sign a 30 year contract to fly for my airline. Since he is most likely single with little responsibility the crap wages I offer in this lenghtly contract will likely not bother him. Now you own this poor young fool for 30 years. You include a rediculously high 1,000,000 bond in the contract to keepp your new pet from straying.
Shortage? There will be no shortage. here are too many tools at management disposal. Unions are corrupt weak and impotent. History proves me right.
1st. Scrap all or most 50 seat jets. The staffing ratio for a 50 seat jet is roughly 10 pilots per plane. I would then buy large narowbodies (A320 and 737's) to replace them. Staffing those aircraft may be around the same or higher, but you move 3 times the passengers. Shortage averted.
2nd. I could also start an ab-intio program where I take a gullable 21 year old college grad and make him sign a 30 year contract to fly for my airline. Since he is most likely single with little responsibility the crap wages I offer in this lenghtly contract will likely not bother him. Now you own this poor young fool for 30 years. You include a rediculously high 1,000,000 bond in the contract to keepp your new pet from straying.
Shortage? There will be no shortage. here are too many tools at management disposal. Unions are corrupt weak and impotent. History proves me right.
Kinda like this article states:
Airlines cut small jets as fuel prices soar: Associated Press Business News - MSN Money
11-27-2011, 08:36 AM
#9
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11-27-2011, 08:48 AM
#10
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Posts: 474
Originally Posted by Cavity
Reading pprune and a couple of other aviation forums, aren't some of these Gulf airlines, for example, elimimating 50 seat Rj guys because the 50 seater doesn't meet their minimum MTGOW flight time requirement? Don't almost all of these airlines require you to basically uproot your family to work there? Don't some of them cut off applicants who are older than 50-something? Don't some of them have pretty intense physicals? It seems to me all of the above are pretty fixable. Hell, if Emirates, for example, put a few pilot domiciles in the US they could have all the pilots they could ever want!
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