Southwest unmoved by DFW stunt
 

Southwest unmoved by D/FW stunt

By DAVID KOENIG
Associated Press

DALLAS - Unable to woo Southwest Airlines with an offer of $22 million and free rent, Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport tried a publicity stunt to lure the low-cost carrier Friday.

Regional airport hired a plane to drag a banner over Southwest's headquarters, imploring the airline to begin flying from D/FW. They also released a survey showing that most D/FW travelers want Southwest to operate at the big airport.

Dallas/Fort Worth is fighting Southwest's bid to operate long flights from Love Field, near downtown Dallas.

If Congress backs Southwest's effort to repeal a 1979 law limiting Love Field flights, the low-cost carrier could compete directly with D/FW's major tenant, American Airlines, for travel to and from Dallas.

A Southwest spokeswoman said the fly-over and survey wouldn't change the airline's mind.

More than 100 D/FW employees were bused to the press conference near Love Field. Michael Baldwin, D/FW's assistant vice president of revenue management, led the group in cheers.

Southwest executives were busy at headquarters and missed the fly-over, spokeswoman Brandy King said, adding, "but we appreciate DFW's costly gesture."

swa to DFW
 

I have been saying this all along.
I don't understand why SWA refuses such a generous offer.
Free rent for a year, along with a lot of other perks.
I guess when you have a monopoly at Dallas Love.....
there is no reason to change status quo.

Except (of course) trying to get legslation to undo the Wright Amendment.

I just wish SWA would step up to the plate and take a few swings
over at DFW. The customers want it, the other airlines at DFW want it,
The north Texas economy wants it.

I guess that the only people who DON'T want it is SWA

Oh-well they did not want to fly long haul from Dallas Love anyway.

;)

I find it interesting that DFW puts the financial screws and runs off the airlines NOT making money (Delta comes to mind), and then offers FREE terminals and space the airline who CAN afford it. Maybe AA should pull out and tell DFW to go to hell, pack up and let ALL of the passengers in the area fly on the cattlecar airlines. I'm wondering how much INTERNATIONAL business SWA has brought into the Dallas/Ft Worth economy? My bet is not one thin dime. I'm tired of seeing the "lowcost airlines" running the show, yet they can't fly a simple trip to Tokyo or Honk Kong or even Tel Aviv. Try getting a first class/business seat to Paris on SWA, JetBlue or Air Tran..... ...............and Paris, TEXAS is as far as you'll get. Wow.............. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of friends who fly/work at SWA and other LCC's, but I also remember when Pan Am, UAL, and a few others ruled the roost. Look at them now. If SWA hadn't had the money to hedge fuel, they'd be losing their shirt along with everyone else now too. These major airports better be careful as they might just get what they want..............and lose the majors in the process. I don't know of many businessmen that'll want to go to IAH just to fly to South America because DFW ran the majors out of town for a 737 fleet. JMHO

>>I guess when you have a monopoly at Dallas Love.....
there is no reason to change status quo.<<

Can you explain how it is that SWA has a monopoly at DAL?

A check on travelocity shows a round trip tomorrow from PHX to AUS is $465

A round trip tomorrow from PHX to DFW is $998

Roundtrip PHX to DAL on SWA with through ABQ is $250

Instead of telling people the moronic "we know why you fly"

maybe the AA headshed ought to be figuring out why people are p!ssed off.

What has changed is that in the old days it was much harder for people to realize that they were getting hosed. Now the internet makes it very easy to see and the traveling public has become much more savvy airline shoppers.

What a farse polling pax in the DFW if they want LUV to offer service there. How about polling pax at DAL if they would like the freedom to fly anywhere?

SWA are the Borg. Resistence is futile. If they came to DFW it would be AA's worst nightmare.

how about some iced tea?
 

Easy there Cowboy!!!!!!!!!
Sit down and have a cool one you are gonna pop a vessel!

Maybe people who are either students or poor retired people who have nothing
better to do. Starting with: elbow your way into the plane, fight for your seat, and then
waste 2 days sitiing round airports waiting for your (SWA) ship to come in.
With the wright amendment in place (where it should and will stay) These el-cheapo DAL travelers are only 1 step above the bus crowd.
They would probably walk if it wasn't so hot outside!

Personally for me Time is money. I could care less about saving a few dollars.

Maybe for someone like your self who has nothing better to do you might want to try Greyhound, they are still cheaper and you get to see so much more!
AA matches every fare that SWA offers in the Wright amendment arena.
I do not know where you got your facts

I get the feeling you are a big fan of SWA, You probably work there, as do all your friends.
Thats fine ,I still offer IN OPEN ARMS for SWA to come to DFW and act like a team player.
I know this will NEVER HAPPEN and so do you.
If you want to play with the big-boys you gots to play by the big-boys rules!

>>Personally for me Time is money.<<

Yeah, that is why point to point is gaining ground over hub and spoke. In the PHX to AUS example, the non-stop was AWA or SWA. To do it on AA you have to fly to overfly AUS to DFW and sit around to catch a turbo-prop to go back to AUS.

>> I could care less about saving a few dollars.<<

That will change when the furlough notice comes.

>>Maybe for someone like your self who has nothing better to do you might want to try Greyhound, they are still cheaper and you get to see so much more!<<

Bold words as "more room in coach" quietly gets removed to a lower seat pitch than SWA. I could mention the pillows, but why pile on?


>>If you want to play with the big-boys you gots to play by the big-boys rules!<<

Here's a better one, known as the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. Check out the market capitalization of AMR and LUV.

You still didn't explain how it is that SWA has a monopoly at DAL.

My sand box and your sandbox
 

It all basically boils down to this:

Swa has their sandbox......... DAL.
AA has their sandbox.......... DFW.

AA has no desire to fly from DAL
SWA has no desire to fly from DFW.

AA is happy with the way things operate now.
SWA is NOT happy with the way things operate now.

Swa wants to fly long haul from DAL
AA already does fly long haul from DFW

SWA wants to change the rules so they can play long haul too
AA does not want to let SWA fly long haul from DAL.

SWA wants to compete from a different location for the long haul customer
AA does that already.

Swa does not want to agree to fly ANYWHERE from DFW
AA says "come on over" competition is good.

SWa says" no" we want to do it in our own sandbox
AA says laws say no, come to our sandbox and play long haul.

SWA does not like AA's Sandbox, Too messy and too many players
AA likes it the way it is.

SO there you have it in language a second grader can understand.

The resolution is this:
SWA flys long haul from DAL
AA mirrors SWA long haul
OR
SWA goes to AA's sandbox and plays long haul
AA tries to beat up SWA

Either way this ordeal ends up it will be exciting
THAT my friend we WILL AGREE UPON

Boyd commentary
 

Mike Boyd, www.aviationplanning.com--

More Fancy Dancin' From
DFW International Airport

They can't really be paying for consultants to create this stuff.

We're talking about the klutzy PR campaign being put on by DFW International Airport to get Southwest to move over from Love Field.

First, they came out with an "independent" study the "findings" and delivery of which looked like a bad plot for a Harry Potter movie, and just about as consistent with reality.

Last week, the fantasy continued. With a straight face, they announced the results of a poll taken to get the public's opinion whether they want Southwest service at DFW.

The question, according to the media, plumbed deep into the subject matter, asking,

"Would you like to see Southwest Airlines fly out of DFW Airport?"

Holy Gallup, Batman! A whopping 85% said yes! (Well, not actually, but that's the way it was spun to the media.)

For those of us in the air service development business, this really is an incredible bit of information, and it raises what may be a security-related issue for the Metroplex: Where were the other 15% of the population? Have they been spirited away by evil terrorists? Kidnapped? Held up in North Dakota against their will?

Well actually, the poll wasn't conducted in the entire Metroplex, but only among passengers at, you guessed it, DFW airport.

But, still, the results are amazing. DFW asked passengers if they would like service from an airline offering low fares, excellent service, and outstanding reliability, and 15% of the population said no?

Actually, only 69% said yes. The 85% figure resulted from DFW removing the respondents who answered "Don't Know." Like with DFW's silly "study" from a few weeks ago, this looks painfully like more spin than substance.

In any event, asking the question at all was dumb, and insulting to the public. DFW posed a simplistic question, the answer to which is obvious, and then postured it all like they're Madame Curie, and they've just discovered radium.

The whole intent is to make Southwest look like they're not giving the public what it wants. Furthermore, it's a stretch to posture this response as being the public "urging" Southwest to come to DFW.

Are Billboards Next? Media reports indicated also that DFW International, in its quest to get Southwest service, has resorted to the type of amateur theatrics usually expected from the Chamber of Commerce at East Upchuck, Iowa. Aside from silly veneer "studies" and public opinion polls, DFW even hired a small airplane to drag a banner over Love Field with the message, "Travelers Want Southwest at DFW NOW!" Sort of like what liquor companies used to do at college football games, having a Cessna 172 pulling signs hyping cheap hooch... "Royal Canadian, Now $6.98 A Quart!"

Can't wait to see what's next from DFW. No telling what their PR company might think up next. Gee, how 'bout something really innovative? Got it! Let's send a bottle of, say, Wild Turkey, to Herb Kelleher, dressed up to look like Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry, brandishing a .357, with the tag line, "Go Ahead, Make My Airport."

Or, maybe a billboard on Mockingbird, right at the crowded, congested entrance to Love Field. It'll depict two adorable small children, crying uncontrollably, with the tag line, "Daddy'd be home by now if nasty old Southwest rented 22 gates at DFW, moved its headquarters there, transferred a couple hundred thousand square feet of maintenance space, and spent tens of millions of dollars doing it. Herb Kelleher, you don't care about my Daddy!"

Or, something really, well, aggressively tacky, as one small East Coast airport did, sending a giant post card accusing Southwest of being the Grinch that Stole Christmas for not coming to town. It's the type of amateur, trite schtick that's been used for years by Chambers of Commerce at speed-trap towns all across America, and it's not much different than the type of stuff DFW's been doing.

That's the unfortunate part. Here we have DFW International, one of the nation's most efficient and important airports, a major international crossroads, and the future #2 gateway to China and Asia, groveling around like some small rural berg begging Southwest to come to their airport.

Standby For Some Hard Perspectives. Our study The Wright Amendment - Now For Some Facts will be issued this Friday. Please do not expect the type of intellectual ping-pong stuff that's been driveled out by both sides in this airport cat fight.

The data reveals a number of interesting issues, most of which have been blissfully ignored so far. For example:

Why it might be in American Airlines' best strategic interests to let the Wright Amendment be repealed.

The enormous risks to Southwest - no matter how the deal gets done.

What may be the outcomes for Love Field itself under several scenarios, including repeal, retaining, or modifying the Wright Amendment.

Historical events indicate Love isn't that loved by Metroplex consumers.

This is an analysis that was done without any input from any of the players in this controversy. As our clients - including some new ones - have found, we tell it like it is. We believe a consultant should be there to bring new perspectives, not blindly parrot the party line.

The study will be shipped this Friday, and can be ordered by clicking here.

AA,

When the Wright amendment goes away, which it will, it will force AMR to look at every aspect of its service and learn to compete on service, schedule, safety, passenger experience, and price. LUV has a cost advantage on fuel, but AMR has a cost advantage on wages. AMR will dominate at DFW and LUV will dominate at DAL just like happens today at Chicago between ORD and MDW.
When AA quits whining and starts offering the traveling public what they want, like pillows, they will do fine.
Doing away with the Wright Amendment may just end up being the best thing to ever happen to AMR in the long run. It has created a welfare entitlement mentality that is inherently debilitating. If they really thought they had a product that could compete they wouldn't care what happened to the Wright Amendment or anything else. All the dire predicitions of what would happen if the WA were changed just appear to everyone, including AA employees, exactly what they are; Tacit admissions that AA can't compete. I think they can compete. There will always be a need for full service global carriers and with all of its advantages, AA really should be the most successful, but they aren't going to convince anyone else if they can't convince themselves, which is why all the crying over DAL looks so ridiculous. They need to strap on a pair and act like a megacarrier that welcomes competition rather than fears it.

American gets priority handling no matter what anyone says at DFW. Arrivials, departures, and on the ground. Why would SW want to go over to DFW and have taxi times longer than their flight times? They could taxi over to the Terminal at Love quicker on the highway than it would take for them to get to their gates at DFW.

Looks to me to be a pretty tough go of it for SW to just get the After Landing check list done at Love before they have to park it. I think that they should keep on doing such a great job with that problem instead of worring about any of the distractions comming out of AMR or the DFW thing.

I wonder what AMR would say to SW having a few gates over at Meacham Field? Hmmmm.

My thoughts exactly. DAL is a better airport for pax anyway....at least for the ones originating and terminating in Dallas.

On a separate note; I wonder how many right wing Republican anti-any hint of socialism airline pilots (namely AA pilots) favor the Wright amendment....while, paying lip service to the "free market". hmmmm:rolleyes:

APC's #1 SWA hater strikes again.

-Fatty

You say all of this like the bully who's won several fights before, and wants another.

Do you remember AA's stint at DAL? Do you remember SWA putting you guys to bed, and AA subsequently pulling out?

You and I both know that Dallas is not the first battle ground that AA and SWA have fought on. How successful have AA's efforts to fend off SWA been in these cities?

I'm a Texas native, and SWA is my hometown team. I love the airline, the crews, the product and the price. A considerable portion of the nation feels the same way.

The days of the consumer being loyal to specific brands is coming to an end. Yes, there are still plenty of loyal frequent flyers out there, but as the economy continues to go down the ****ter, the strain on the wallet will lead to purely cost based decsions. It has for me, in the sense of looking past brand name products at the grocery store for cheaper and usually identical store brands.

I think its interesting you look down your nose at SWA when you work for the airline that is hemorraging money and furloughing.

Not me my good man.

Are you mad? Do you need a hug? Dude, you need to relax and take a deep breath. SWA knows how to run a business and make money. Who the hell cares if they dont fly international? If I never flew international again it would be too soon. As long as they make money that's all that matters. I think you need to quit whinning like a little girl and give it a rest.

Geez. This thread is so filled with bitterness it almost belongs in the Regonals.

By the way fellas...you're responding to posts (like ewrbasedpilot's) from 2005. Let it go.

I have to get from KC to CC many times I use LUV, because in my life time is money. If Southwest gets me there faster great! If American or CAL then great. However, most times LUV wins...plus think of all the money they don't have to pass to their customers lining up and waiting in Sewark, JFK, ORD, IAD, IAH, CLT, and the list goes on and on. I don't need to sit on the ground for an hour to then fly for an hour, it makes no sense!!! Good for my block time when I am working, no so good when I am trying to spend time away from the airlines with family.

EWR is not a happy person.:rolleyes:

They made the same offer to Delta as well. I think that we will bite again but only if the offer is sweetened. A lot
Our previous gates were costing Delta about 9.20 per passenger. Now we are down to about 2.65 per passenger. If we are to go back it would have to be at our same rate per passenger or less.

Wow, there is no other way to say it...you're a stuck up, whiny snob.

AA does not have a cost advantage over SWA on employee wages. In fact they have a significant disadvantage. Don't mistake hourly wages with overall employee costs. You have to figure in every aspect involved in keeping a employee on the property.

Lets play this game until the last man is standing! Good luck.

Holy Threadbump Batman
 

How did you even find this thread? I don't even know how to look back into the archives that far. I was wondering why I didn't hear anything about this event on the local news... But now that I see that this thread was resurrected after the 3rd anniversary of the last post, that would explain it. I'm curious to know how many of the original posters are still here at the APC forum.

Can we put this thread in a time capsule... Maybe we could have one of the moderators lock it up, and then reopen it in another 3 years. Who knows, maybe by then, Delta will be flying to all the old NWA Asia destinations out of DFW... SWA will be an international player serving Mexico... USAir will still have two separate pilot groups at war with each other. AA will sell off all their large aircraft with all those coach seats for pesky poor people, and replace them all with Gulfstreams to compete with Netjets. TSA will start screening people on the new FrAActional airline after a series of incidents involving the pax killing pilots for taaxiing waay too slow.

Hmmm...

Heh heh..3 years later and Terminal E is still a ghost town.

Well, it can indeed be a bitter topic......understandably so at that.

As a commuter, DFW is closer to my home in southwest fort worth. However, I always, ALWAYS drive the extra 30 minutes to Love Field to avoid the insanity that is DFW. Love Field is simple, for pilots like me :rolleyes:

Anyways, I hope SWA gets what they want.

It cracks me up how so many pilots take this topic personally - as if their own mother is being offended.

WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS??? SWA has their system, and it works. AA has their system and, well... it kind of works.

This sounds like a classic "My dad can beat up your dad" kind of mentality. Let it go guys... it just ain't worth it.

I agree, it aint worth it, particularly since this is from two years ago!:confused:

My feelings exactly