aa73

Posted on FI.com as well:

OK Folks this question has been a long time coming. I know I'm gonna hear a lot of good and bad from both camps... that's fine.

With the A319 only 1.5 years away from arriving here at AA, I'm trying to erase a long running hesitation in someday flying this bird. For years I strongly disliked the Airbus cockpit philosophy and was rather glad that AA chose to stay true to Boeing.

I've had the opportunity to j/s on United and USAir Airbus cockpits and I must say..... I'm still hesitant.

There is no doubt in my mind that this is one of the most comfy cockpits I have ever sat in. The ergonomics are spectacular. Everything flows nicely.

But... I still question: Are the pilots REALLY in control? I had a lot of difficulty watching the engine instruments register changes without the throttles moving. I never quite knew what the engines were doing. Why are the throttles locked at Climb Thrust with the engines back at idle? This stuff really conflicts with my "Boeing-warped" mind.

I also had a tough time comparing aircraft pitch/roll commands without seeing a corresponding stick movement. Why, because the other stick doesn't move. How does the other pilot know what the flying pilot is doing?

Lastly: I understand that the stick commands a RATE, not simply a control surface movement. So if you bang in left stick and center it, the aircraft will continue rolling left until you bang in right stick. VERY disconcerting to me: I expect that, if you bang in left stick and center it, the aircraft would stop rolling, not increase it.

As I understand it, the 777, while still FBW, maintained the Boeing philosophy of keeping it a pilot's airplane.

As you can see, I have serious issues with this philosophy, not to mention the fact that this "pilot out of the loop" philosophy may have contributed to the lack of SA exhibited with Air France 447. I want to feel comfortable with the Airbus as this aircraft may very well be my first CA upgrade at AA. Please give me the pros and cons and help convince me that this aircraft will not "go computer psycho" without anything I can do about it.

Thanks for any responses.
73

Timbo

I don't have any Airbus time except for about an hour in the A380 sim in Dubai. The non-moving throttles were my biggest distraction. I share all of your concerns.

That Paris Air Show chainsaw incident cured me of any desire to fly an airplane that thinks it's smarter than the pilot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEH7OpnA-I4

Also, if you go to You Tube, type in "Bad Crosswind Landings" or such, you will see a lot of very ugly crosswind landings...and 90% of them are Airbus A320's! What does that tell you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq9WrCFqmbI

I do fly the 777, it flys just like the 757, with a couple nice added features, (Thurst Asymetry computer) but you are always the pilot, and it won't tell you you can't go around when you really need to!

ridered

Been in the bus for 8 yrs and am very comfortable. More of a flight management specialist, the logic is sometimes hesitant, slow to respond. But like any computer it does what you tell it to do, nothing less nothing more. There is potential to get bit, but I personally Wouldn't want to give it up. It's a lazy mans airplane and I am a lazy man! If you don't like what it's doing........ SHUT the AUTOMATIOM OFF! (AP off Auto thrust off FD off) it flys well.

aa73

Thanks Timbo, rider.

Question to rider: do you ever feel "not in control" - even WITH the automation off? Example, the auto trim. I have serious issues with not being able to trim. What if the auto trim goes psycho and trims full nose up, how would you stop it (other than pulling the CB, which may take some time to find?) without having trim switches/buttons to counter it nose down?

Aother question, I understand that a Lufthansa years ago was unable to stop on landing due to the air/ground sensor still thinking it was in "air." Can you really not just stomp on the brakes, are they electronic as well?

You see, this stuff scares me. I know it's a great plane when everything works. I'm more concerned about the automation going psycho. I know that in a Boeing the automation could go psycho but we still have ultimate control. (Obviously USAir 423 was a rudder reverse hardover but that was a hydraulic problem that could happen in any aircraft, had nothing to do with automation.)

hockeypilot44

I've flown Boeing, Douglas, Airbus, and Embraer. Airbus is by far my favorite. It is the easiest and most comfortable. You should be more worried about what American is going to pay you to fly a 125 seat airplane than what it's like to fly it. I've heard they are trying to pay you guys regional wages for it.

aa73

Totally different subject and not going to address that in this thread: there are plenty of threads on that.

As a potential Airbus pilot, I'm far more worried about the safety aspect of this computerized plane and how to remain in control. Mind you, I'm not a "lazy pilot": I am far and away a hands on pilot who likes to hand fly all the way up to cruise and disconnect coming down thru FL180 or so, including FDs and autothrottles off. Keeps my flying skill sharp and the flying fun. I want to be able to do that in the Airbus but all my buds who fly it strongly recommend against that.

hockeypilot44

It's as safe as any other plane. You can turn the auto-throttles off at any time and then they work just like any other airplane's. You push them forward for more power, pull them back for less power. I'm not really sure why you would do that though. It's just unnecessary work for yourself. The airplane is well designed.

aa73

Hockeypilot, same reason I disconnect it on the 75/76: to continue "being a pilot" and having fun flying. We've become enough of system managers in this century... I still like to have fun and hand fly a bunch... otherwise it gets kind of boring. Plus it keeps me sharp in case all that stuff craps out all of a sudden.

Timbo

I do as much hand flying as possible too, that's why I love the Boeings, they are designed for that. From what I have heard about Airbus, not so much.

I guess I'm just one of those wacky pilots who actually enjoys flying airplanes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7u1j...eature=related

RI830

Don't forget about 300's that AA ran up and down the East coast and Caribbean. I too share your reservations, hesitations and concerns about the Airbus logic. For pilot to not have "Complete" control and for them to not fully understand what the airplane is doing or gonna do under certain laws or logic is very concerning.
One of my Accident Investigation/Aviation Safety professors in college said.....If it ain't Boeing....I ain't going!!