Delta and TPG look To put bid on AMR Corp
#41
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
#42
As I said on your thread a few months back. Talking about corporate maneuvering is not the same as wishing ill will on pilots. Separate them, I do.
#43
This breaking news is a great diversion from the underboob scandal that has plagued this thread for the last 3 days, but you say this with such confidence, as if this is a done deal. We read the article for the first time within the last 4 hours - how do you know it must produce growth for our pilots on the list. Period. ?
I've heard about good deals for us time and time again, but at the end of the day, I'm not any better off (financially) than I was 10 years ago. I'm not any better off (seniority wise) than I was 5 years ago. In fact, I'm worse off.
Many reps feel this way? I hope you're correct. I really hope that all of them feel this way.
I've heard about good deals for us time and time again, but at the end of the day, I'm not any better off (financially) than I was 10 years ago. I'm not any better off (seniority wise) than I was 5 years ago. In fact, I'm worse off.
Many reps feel this way? I hope you're correct. I really hope that all of them feel this way.
#44
And I've already figured out that I would be senior to you! Ratio via category and class would put a 2007 Delta hire right up there with the early 90 hires at AA!!
FWIW, I really think this would be a horrible deal for every pilot involved. I'm almost sure I would be on the street and the massive retirements we are looking at at both airlines would just offset the reduction in flying resulting in more stagnation for everyone. I'm hoping AA pulls out of this as a stand alone carrier and we all move on, not looking that way at this point however.
FWIW, I really think this would be a horrible deal for every pilot involved. I'm almost sure I would be on the street and the massive retirements we are looking at at both airlines would just offset the reduction in flying resulting in more stagnation for everyone. I'm hoping AA pulls out of this as a stand alone carrier and we all move on, not looking that way at this point however.
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Agreed. We would all be better off if we fought SWA in the late 90's instead of having CEO's leverage their corporations. It did not happen, and after a long stretch of worse and worse, we are here with more of the same nasty sandwich. Employees will lose on all sides. Some more than others, but this is never good for the working sloth.
#46
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Not sure where you got that. You'd have to be living under a rock not to see that AMR is in play, from multipile angles and numerous scenarios. Most of the DL speculation centers around how many of our own will have to eat a furlough over this, regardless of what happens to AA or AE. Also, if you've read any of the posts, you'd see plenty of talk about the potential slicing and dicing of the DL network is a top concern.
Also, AE will be shrunk dramatically unless AA survives as a stand alone with very little asset sales...AND...if the AA pilots gut their own scope. But if they are willing to do that to the extent necessary to preserve AE (replacing 50 seaters with 100/100+seaters) they would be just as willing to bargain away other portions of their scope to facilitate a more favorable fragmentation even if that ends up happening.
Other than maybe a very few, very senior, pilots living in ORD, MIA and DFW, no one at Delta is salivating over this because for every scenario that would cause positive movement for the DL list, there is one that causes significant stagnation and several that will cause massive career changing furloughs.
Other than running up the price for a competitor in a bidding war or getting a very few assets here or there in a full (unlikely) or partial (more likely) or very partial (most likely) fragmentation, a full on merger with AA will be absolutely horriffic for DL pilots.
Other than running up the price for a competitor in a bidding war or getting a very few assets here or there in a full (unlikely) or partial (more likely) or very partial (most likely) fragmentation, a full on merger with AA will be absolutely horriffic for DL pilots.
I'd advice you to join me watching the colliding, truncated fowl and blossoming feather plume of those who haven't a clue beyond their own dreams, desires and fantasies.
It's actually a classic comedy and worthy of observence......well, I'm out of beer nuts and my beverage is low, so back to the kitchen to refill for the next entertaining act of "The flying Saps".
#47
APA has been looking at this, as well as many ALPA carriers. What is important is to understand the implications of any action, and as a result of about a handful of possibilities the results of ever one of those. It is not gloating or wishing ill will on the APA pilots, it is planning for the facts and scenarios that every pilot group including APA faces.
DAL was put in this position in late 2006. Parker and Anderson know that Parker waited to long. With AMR going to court to list what leases they want to ax, now is the time to pounce. It is also the time for the pilot groups to fine tune their plans and responses. Again, it is the business side of the deal. Reality is that a guy like me may see the street from this sort of deal. It will not be end to end, the bases are too close to each other. That is the reality of where the M and A scenarios are at this time. Ugly? yes, Fun? No.
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
1113c can't touch scope. It can only shred the other areas of a CBA. The pilots have to willingly give up scope in a flailing attempt to salvage value in toe other sections of their CBA that the courts can cut. There will be no forced growth to the regionals, only that which is freely given up.
#49
I worry about a modified repeat of the LCC revolution of 2001-2010, especially with all this "capacity dicipline" and an AA tie up. If we really start to cull capacity, while the MBA spreadsheet guys are autoerotically actuarializing their paper gains on yields, the LCC's of the world will cut in line again and add between 8 and 15 seats for every 10 we cut...especially if it appears to be "working" with sky high yields. We will see another wave of AT/SW/JB/F9/NK and now VX expansion that will shred anything we hope to make by employing such a myopic quarter to quarter long term strategy. I hope our guys are smarter than that but we have serious reason to doubt most of them are.
If we fail to do it, yes, you could be correct and NKS could in fact take delivery of all 75 320's they ordered. Bad for us, and that is why on many levels AMR and these possibilities are important in the domestic realm. Do not even get me started on the wider game of imploding or greatly hurting one world.
#50
I worry about a modified repeat of the LCC revolution of 2001-2010, especially with all this "capacity dicipline" and an AA tie up. If we really start to cull capacity, while the MBA spreadsheet guys are autoerotically actuarializing their paper gains on yields, the LCC's of the world will cut in line again and add between 8 and 15 seats for every 10 we cut...especially if it appears to be "working" with sky high yields. We will see another wave of AT/SW/JB/F9/NK and now VX expansion that will shred anything we hope to make by employing such a myopic quarter to quarter long term stratedgy. I hope our guys are smarter than that but we have serious reason to doubt most of them are.
Simple minds are satisfied by simplistic explanations.
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