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representation vote

Old 10-25-2006, 06:04 AM
  #1  
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Default representation vote

Any lawyers in the crowd? I'm wondering, if a pilot group with a current union contract holds a representation vote and votes to change bargaining agents, ie, change unions, does that require a full section 6 contract negotiation to begin? I assume you would continue to operate under the "status quo," but would you open negotiations right away, or would you have to wait for the amendable date of the old contract? I've gone online and tried to find the answer in both the Railway Labor Act and the National Labor Relations Act, but it's not real clear.
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:21 AM
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Default Never forget this...

When you hold a vote to change representation, one of the options in an NLRB election is 'No Union'.

Count your votes beforehand and make D**N sure there aren't enough suckers in your pilot group who'll believe management promises and decertify your Union.

Been there, done that!
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dogtired View Post
Any lawyers in the crowd? I'm wondering, if a pilot group with a current union contract holds a representation vote and votes to change bargaining agents, ie, change unions, does that require a full section 6 contract negotiation to begin? I assume you would continue to operate under the "status quo," but would you open negotiations right away, or would you have to wait for the amendable date of the old contract? I've gone online and tried to find the answer in both the Railway Labor Act and the National Labor Relations Act, but it's not real clear.
I'm not an RLA lawyer but, We've done that.............I imagine your current contract has a successorship clause (maybe in the scope sction?)that has a blurb about if you merge with another carrier....ya da da id da. This is usually where you will find the language.

The bottom line is if you change unions (not completley decertify ) your current contract will be ok, the new UNION will become the Administator.

Both parties (MGT and Labor) are free to open up or engage in section 6 negotiations early, but both parties must agree, otherwise you are stuck with what you have until the amendable date.

Just food for thought. We were had a National Union (but with no contract).
ALPA 1 tried for a couple years to get a contract but remember we were previously non union.
we had a lot of "Kool Aid" Drinkers and because of many things (we eventually decertified ALPA and voted in an Independent FPA). We struggled under them for approx 4+ years and did finally get a ratified contract.........very similiar to the one our First ALPA negotiatedt but was turned down. Half way through the first contract we realized that we would be better served with the alliance to a National UNION. We woke up as a group and re-voted ALPA back in and they admisinstered our FPA contract until it became amended last week.

Quite frankly I believe we are better off now under ALPA. But the 8 year span of voting in and voting out and back in again wasted a lot of time effort on the real problems........Unity and MGT. In other words it took our Pilot group years of wasted efforts re iventing the wheel, but maybe that was necessary growing pains.

Do what you gotta to do, but if you ALPA currently and not happy........change your leadership not your UNION. Just my 2 cents.

Last edited by RedeyeAV8r; 10-25-2006 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r View Post
Do what you gotta to do, but if you ALPA currently and not happy........change your leadership not your UNION. Just my 2 cents.
Well said.
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Old 10-25-2006, 11:20 AM
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Actually we are alpa, but they negotiated a dog of a contract with a long amendable date. We're trying to figure a way out of that contract, and to be honest I've never been a fan of alpa ( I've been a member over 23 years). I have a number of issues with alpa and have been meeting quite a favorable response from other guys when I suggest the idea of throwing them out and forming an in-house union. If we would be stuck with the same contract until the amendable date, it would not be worth it to go through a membership drive and change representation only to have new reps administer the same ugly contract.
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Old 10-25-2006, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dogtired View Post
Actually we are alpa, but they negotiated a dog of a contract with a long amendable date. We're trying to figure a way out of that contract, and to be honest I've never been a fan of alpa ( I've been a member over 23 years). I have a number of issues with alpa and have been meeting quite a favorable response from other guys when I suggest the idea of throwing them out and forming an in-house union. If we would be stuck with the same contract until the amendable date, it would not be worth it to go through a membership drive and change representation only to have new reps administer the same ugly contract.
Who is THEY?? What you meant to say (I think) is YOUR NEGOTIATING committee and YOUR MEC did this. These are the people that YOU elected.

If these folks aren't doing what YOU wanted who is to blame??

If they aren't doing the will of the Membership then recall them and replace them with people who will do what you want.
Too many folks make the mistake of Blaming ALPA National when almost everything you seem to have a problem with is all done at your local MEC level. Attend you LEC meetings and keep your elected officials accountable.

If you folks had another UNION chances are the same people who would run those committees are the same ones who volunteer for the ALPA committees you have now.....

I speak from experience as we went through what you are going through......with respect to unhappyness with our representation.
The grass ain't greener with an Independent Union.

It is the peoples you put in power.
If you work for Northwest.......you might look at how FedEx structured it's MEC. When we came back to ALPA we had ALPA national change the Constitution and By laws.

We have a Seniority based representational system where each member of our MEC is from a different Tier in the seniority system.
You guys can go to that too. Worth trying as it works for us.

Last edited by RedeyeAV8r; 10-25-2006 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 10-25-2006, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r View Post
Who is THEY?? What you meant to say (I think) is YOUR NEGOTIATING committee and YOUR MEC did this. These are the people that YOU elected.

If these folks aren't doing what YOU wanted who is to blame??

If they aren't doing the will of the Membership then recall them and replace them with people who will do what you want.
Too many folks make the mistake of Blaming ALPA National when almost everything you seem to have a problem with is all done at your local MEC level.
Right on the mark!
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