buzzpat

Which might spell the end of the code share....which I would welcome. If you don't think AK and DL are coordinating their routes you are naive and uninformed. That's why it's a code share!

buzzpat

OK, we'll buy them.

Bill Lumberg

We could buy them and use their cash on hand to help pay for it.

buzzpat

Wouldn't be as bad as BOS-LAX, NYC-LAX or PHL-LAX. We do all of those now.

Pelican

There is that DL arrogance. Comparing AS to Chautauqua, are you serious? Last I checked our 737 rates are pretty similar to yours....oh but I'm sorry, we didn't go bankrupt and dumped everybody's retirement plan like most out there. So when comparing us to Chautauqua what are the similarities? It's not like AS is growing exponentially with all this flying DL "Allows us to do". We have furloughed and stagnated just like everybody else over the past 3-5 years. This is about the most conservatively run operation in the industry, that's why we've been around for 80 years! We're not an over-night, start-up, we've been around and defended our niche for almost as long as DL has been around (+ - a few years). I suggest you get over yourselves, your school-yard bullying is getting old.

gloopy

It has nothing to do with schoolyard bullying. If your management was in a code share agreement with another airline and was dumping up to 86 seats per flight on routes you could easilly do and many that you used to do, in some cases 12+ flights a day between a city pair with other airlines doing it too and your airline being shut out, you wouldn't like it one bit. AS shareholders and pilots are benefiting immensely from their extremely favorable agreements with AA and DL but its not going to last.

Your rates are in line with everyone else's BK rates. Hopefully we all raise them soon. That's not the point. Our management is dumping pax into your system because they are hell bent on avoiding capex and adding capacity right now at any cost to get debt down and AA is going through a rough patch to say the least. One of the strong arm "term sheet" things those cut throat labor busters desprately want is an unlimited code share with AS and JB. Why do you think that is? I hope you can see that while it may benefit you today, it is a huge negative blow to all things airline pilot and needs to stop.

AS is being used just like Chautauqua (and Mesa and others) as an ACMI outsource provider but instead of an air service agreement where you buy an entire flight, we invest nothing and fill up to half of any given AS flight. Clearly you can see how that is not a good thing for the piloting profession when a management team is given the ability to do that. You benefit from it today, with a very one sided agreement, but you will not always. In any case it is not something you should celebrate or be proud of.

I've said many times that AS is a legendary innovator and operational pioneer. That is why it is a crying shame to see them devolve into a regional that fills itself up with other airline's passengers. Its lazy on both our management's parts. Fortunately it will be over with a merger with either AA or DL, which I hope happens because the present situation is rediculous.

I respect the history of Alaska Airlines and its pilots, but not this one sided code share. Ending madness like this isn't just a DL or AA issue. If this crap is allowed to continue, it WILL come back to bite your pilot group one day.

Pelican

So I'm still confused about what or who you're ****ed at and what I should do about it. I'm not the smartest person in the world so I've attempted to break it down to three possibilities.

1. You're ****ed at us AS pilots for weakening the profession by hauling YOUR passengers on OUR airplanes? What should I do about that? Refuse to allow YOUR passengers on OUR airplanes in attempt to allow DL pilots to grow, upgrade and live happily ever after?

2. Your ****ed at AS management for securing an agreement favorable to its employees, and shareholders? In which they should do what? Tell DL management, thanks but no thanks, we don't want your money?

3. Your ****ed at your own company? Then I suggest you take that up with them an quit blaming it on everyone else around you for your misery.

We are in fact outsourcing on our own. Do I blame skywest for flying Horizon airplanes on Horizon/Alaska routes and get ****ed at their pilots for degrading the profession? No, I don't, I am thankful my company is smart enough to reallocate it's resources into profitable markets and act responsibly enough to not declare bankruptcy and not destroy the pensions of thousands of employees. If I had to choose between sitting in the right seat for an extra 5 years or whatever the case may be, or upgrading tomorrow, going bankrupt in 5 years and losing everything.....I'd choose right seat.

gloopy

Nope. Its not your fault our scope sucks. But I'd be very careful thinking this is a good deal for you or your company. This is symptomatic of labor's weakness and if its not fixed they WILL use it on you someday.

Nope. DL offered them easy money, they would be as crazy not to take it as any regional in a guaranteed profit RFP.


Yep. I am and we are. Altough I suspect it just may resolve itself with what's going on with AA and DL's desire to be tip of the spear in the next round of consolidation. I actually think we would make a great team and our route structures go together better than just about any 2 unmerged airlines in history.

LOL yeah OK, outsource or go bankrupt. We really are our own worst enemies.

As for your comment on SkyWest, they were brought in to labor bust Horizon, which existed as a separate labor group in no small part to keep your costs in check but they got too expensive, even for a regional. Its not about getting mad at SKYW pilots. That would be fruitless. But the system is screwed up and we all need to make it a priority to change.

Scoop

Pelican,

Most DAL Pilots know that Alaska is a great operation with Top rate Pilots. What upsets a lot of DAL Pilots is going to the Delta travel site, looking up Delta flights, say LAX to SEA and seeing 10 Alaska flights listed.

This discussion should have nothing to do with the quality of the Airlines or the Pilots - its about DAL management flying a lot pf passengers on Alaska airlines - far more passengers in proportion to the Alaska passengers that DAL flies.

We would like to fly as many of our passengers as possible just as I am sure you guys would like to fly as many of your passengers as possible.

Both great airlines with great histories and traditions.


Scoop

FlyAK

Have you Delta guys considered that we might fill up half of your flights from time to time? Code share goes both ways...