Military Pilots are happier?
 

After reading forums on here for about two weeks, I have noticed a trend. I could be wrong, but most of the military and ex-military guys( and women) on here seem to be happier than those who went straight into the airlines or some other civilian route. They give advice, sometimes not always a bright picture, but they always seem very motivated and positive. While I am sure that the military route is extremely challenging, I am beginning to be more attracted to it because of the input from the military pilots on this forum. What do people think? Obviously some will say that both civilian and military can be good, but really what are some thoughts on this subject?

Thats because the military is a totally different culture than the civilian world. We are used to dealing with hardships and tough situations. We may not like it and we do gripe about it, but we deal with it and move on.

That's an interesting observation, but I don't really think that observing posts on an airline pilot message board is really a fair barometer of the contentment of military pilots about the airline industry. Obviously anyone who is reading this board has some sort of interest in getting into the airlines, so they're generally going to have a positive attitude about it. You're not going to get the military equivelent of "SkyHigh" on here talking about how terrible it all is, because that dude is probably off doing something other than hawking the fight on an airline pilot board.

Personally, I think that you don't see military guys b*tching about things happening in the airline biz because it's so different than the lifestyle of a military pilot. When an ex-military pilot goes to an airline, he gets to basically solve all the things that military pilots hate most about their jobs -- there are no "additional duties", no desk-work BS related to trying to get promoted or fill the latest career-square, and the pay is generally much better. Oh, yeah, and you're not getting shot at, living in tents on a 4-month deployment to the desert where you can't drink or have sex.

It's not all roses, however, and you lose many of the things that are great about flying in the military -- the exciting flying, the sense of mission, the tight squadron camraderie. It's a tradeoff, but I think that by the time a military guy gets to an airline seat there is not too much to b*tch about.

24G's reply has some merit, though. Not to imply that civilian-trained and employed pilots don't, but military guys have to eat many sh*t sandwiches often enough that they're used to it.

Except for the day I passed my Captain upgrade final check, I don't think a day of my airline career ever equaled a similar day in my military career.

But...I was doing exactly what I wanted in the USAF. Flying fighters. I can well understand that others may feel differently...after all, the separation rates over the years are testament to that.

For me, military flying was a life style...airline flying was nothing but a job. I didn't look forward to military retirement...I did in the airlines.

Back to the poster's original question...the value of a military flying background cannot be overstated when considering going to the airlines. While I would not endorse the idea of going into the military for the purpose of sweetening the hiring process later, I do recognize the advantages that military time brings to the table.

Although I wasn't unhappy in the military (most of the time anyway) I am much happier now that I am out. 20 years was enough, and I can't believe how much better things are on the outside.

FJ

Tradeoffs
 

I agree completely with your post Hacker. Don't forget one of the biggest tradeoffs...Job Security. As a double furloughee, I can attest to the enormity of that tradeoff...Huge!

I'm about to get out of the Air Force and I completely agree with Hacker15e. I just happen to get back from another 4 month deployment and I said enough was enough. I don't mind deploying, but deploying sit behind a desk and work with powerpoint slides and excel sheets for some stuck up generals isn't something I thought I signed up for. I thought pilots were suppose to fly, but the Air Force doesn't always see it that way.

I guess I sound a little bitter. BTW, did I mentioned I just got back from a deployment?

Moose, you looking to get into the Reserves?

Back to the poster's original question...the value of a military flying background cannot be overstated when considering going to the airlines. While I would not endorse the idea of going into the military for the purpose of sweetening the hiring process later, I do recognize the advantages that military time brings to the table.[/QUOTE]


:rolleyes: arrogance at it's finest

:rolleyes: arrogance at it's finest[/QUOTE]

Are you being sarcastic?

Far from it...It's the reality that the younger pilots on this and other boards need to hear...Military takes a certain type of personality and the airlines / fortune 500 companies look for the same in their ranks.

-LAFF

Most military pilots are happier because they came from the military with the qualifications needed for the majors. They aren't flying as an f.o. for Mesa:( If ex-military guys were flying for a commuter somewhere, my bet is they would be a little bit angry also.

BC...I regret that you found that comment to be arrogant. Maybe if I rephrase it, you might see things differently.

The military isn't the training league for a career in the airlines. I'm not so blind that I don't recognize that some do feel this way and may well enter military aviation with this in mind. Nor am I so jaded at today's generation that I have lost faith in the idea that there are still those who serve for duty's sake and not their own selfish self-interests.

For those in the first category, my advice is to pull your weight until you can get out...and then leave. No one will stand in your way, and as long as you have done your share, you'll get a handshake on the way out.

On the other hand, for those of that mind, my suggestion is that you keep these plans to yourself...sort of a 'don't ask, don't tell' idea. You won't be the first guys to think that the grass is greener on the other side...trying to sell that idea in the squadron may not receive universal acclaim. You'll be happier and your squadron mates will be too if you don't make this an issue.

Fair enough.

Even though there's alot about the Air Force I can't stand, there's also alot about it I do like.

I love serving my country and feeling like I doing something that's important. Unfortunately, paperwork and deskwork takes priority over everything else.

I do hope to continue my military career in the reserves. This way I can actually fly as a pilot, not sit behind a desk.

Read Military vs civillian

Bottom line
 

:rolleyes: arrogance at it's finest[/QUOTE]

There are some outstanding civilian pilots at Fedex, the same is true of military pilots. We all seem to be equally happy doing this job. I would never say one route is better than the other, it depends who you talk to.

In answer to original posters question, are military pilots happier?
The bottom line is that for most, if not all of us, that chose the military route did it because we were called to serve. It is a calling, I was never in it for the money. There were days as a 2Lt taxing out for takeoff in an F-4E at Taegu Korea that I would have to pinch myself to make sure this was for real, hell I'd of have done the job for nothing--OK, maybe beer money and a place to sleep. It was never a job, flying in the airlnes is. We are not called to serve in the airlines, but rather to make the most amount of money for the least amount work. I'm very happy to be here at FedEx, but it's just a job. A job that I happen to enjoy and they pay me very well for.

If you feel called to serve, then please do so. You will never regret it. But don't join up if your only reason for doing so is to someday become an airline pilot. The airlines will always be here just waiting to scarf you up when the time comes if you choose to leave the service. As far as being happy---Have you ever been at 30,000 feet in an F-15 about to split S on a train of F-16's at Cope Thunder? That's about as good as it gets, I was very happy that day and many others.

Couldn't do the military thing due to knee surgery, 80's medical technology or lack there off. Had to do the civilian gig but grew up, so to speak, while training at my local airport. Got lots of experience cleaning a/c, turning wrenches, driving a tug, pumping gas, flying some corporate stuff, doin' the CFI bit, traffic watch and forestry patrol. When I got to the regionals I got to fly the J-31, Saab and CRJ. Flew with some great guys and again got to learn more as a FMS instructor and working in the sim and line checkairman stuff.

Was I upset because a staple in my knee that kept me out? You bet I was, did I let it stop me? No, because I'm at the same point in my career had I been able to give Uncle Sam 20+ years.

The point I'm trying to make is no matter where you work take it seriously but try to have fun as well. Is one better than the other, each have their good points and bad points. If one thinks that civilian or military is better than the other, you're smoking crack.

BTW Jolly, I'll buy you a lifetime supply of Guinness in exchange for a chance to do a split S in a F-15. It's not as fun when I did it in the CRJ sim on in a CEEE 1-5-2 by accident.:cool:

God bless you guys who keep us safe!!!

Yea what JollyF15 said. Biggest **** eaten grin on my face was coming aboard the boat in an F14 (DAYTIME). Biggest load in my pants......... doing it an (NIGHT).

As far as being happy---Have you ever been at 30,000 feet in an F-15 about to split S on a train of F-16's at Cope Thunder?[/QUOTE]

No, but I have been the untargeted Viper at 100ft and 700kcas about to immelman to 30k into the wall of Eagles just north of THE Farms.;)

Not trying to start a Viper/Eagle thing.

Hehehe!! Don't we all have stories like this!! Makes the movie TopGun look pretty tame.

I ended up in Hogs...one day we were playing around with the Coon Ass Eagle guys, and a young'un jumped me. Nothing stays inside a Hog break and when it's at low altitude, we can hold our energy better than most think.

Certainly better than he thought. First he tried to kill his overtake, then realizing he was going to overshoot anyway, he went vertical.

I know he had drank the Kool Aid that says a Hog can't go up...and so as I went across the top with a face full of Eagle in full burner going nowhere fast, I let go with a "Boy's, it don't get any better than this!".

It got a laugh or two in the debrief!!

Untarget Viper?
 

No, but I have been the untargeted Viper at 100ft and 700kcas about to immelman to 30k into the wall of Eagles just north of THE Farms.;)

Not trying to start a Viper/Eagle thing.[/QUOTE]

Untargeted Viper, ain't no such thing! Seriously though, did it get any better than flying at CT in the PI without big brotha watching you on ACMI? Those were the days brother!

Before I retired, I had a buddy of mine come down from KC with 3 hogs. We had a hell of a good time. Post merge kills, guns only. The bloody great wheel of hugs with 30mm is a hard nut to crack for anyone, even an Eagle Driver.

When I flew them, all we had for an A2A sight was the gun cross. Now that's all changed. Having a reliable gun capability out to 2 nm is pretty neat.

After a few years at an airline it's hard to tell the military and civilian guys apart. We are all just airline pilots at this point and have to deal with all the same issues. Some guys can do it with a good attitude others can't, really don't see any correlation between background and attitude out on the line. The military guys do have some great stories for those long flights and at the bar!

[/QUOTE]

Untargeted Viper, ain't no such thing! Seriously though, did it get any better than flying at CT in the PI without big brotha watching you on ACMI? Those were the days brother![/QUOTE]

OHHHH THAAAT Cope Thunder. I thought you were talking about the sad excuse for an LFE they call Cope T now.

Never made it to the PI, but I did spend a few good days in Low Fly 7.

We do fly for Mesa as well as every commuter out there.... I flew helicopters for 15yrs then spent a couple in C-12/BE-20s for the Navy. There wasn't a job in the majors for me or the other two military guys in my class. I'm more than happy with my commuter job and certainly understand the value of my military training and experience... We all start as FOs somewhere... If you think all military guys go right to a major.. You're dead wrong.

Untargeted Viper, ain't no such thing! Seriously though, did it get any better than flying at CT in the PI without big brotha watching you on ACMI? Those were the days brother![/QUOTE]

OHHHH THAAAT Cope Thunder. I thought you were talking about the sad excuse for an LFE they call Cope T now.

Never made it to the PI, but I did spend a few good days in Low Fly 7.[/QUOTE]

Low Fly 7, been there, done that -- 250 low fly battle of britan rocks! I was flying out of Ramstien, how about you?