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Originally Posted by gloopy
(Post 1199008)
What does that have to do with anything? If they sign 2 year or 200 year DCI contracts, that doesn't mean at the end of those contracts those jets just go away. They are very clearly considered permanent jets. If they weren't, they would have a sunset clause to all of them, yet none of them do. When the leases run out, they will be renewed or given to a cheaper DCI carrier who "deals them an ace" to undercut another DCI carrier. The seat ranges and counts we give them will remain at DCI forever unless they become totally out of whack with CASM. The extra 90 seaters we are giving them insure fierce mainline CASM loyalty to DCI and not mainline for every seat of that lift for all eternity.
There's 311 of the 50's obligated through the end of 2015. |
I really am curious what the current CRJ-200 number is. Seems to change a lot. But scoop I have this table:
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/TEMP1-34.png |
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 1199018)
That's not the way it has worked so far...we once had a whole lot more 50 seat rj's and the first ones were delivered in 1993. That means a whole lot of them left when their DCI or EDC contracts were up, and that was well before 20 years. The 700's and EMB-170's are similary situated.
There's 311 of the 50's obligated through the end of 2015. |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1198977)
As a counter balance to that, we are sharply increasing the longevity of DCI by allowing 70 more jumbo RJs.
This is small potatoes in the big scheme of things. They will be capped... there is no reason to ever revisit that.. and it rids ous of 50s. There is too much obsession here. |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1199111)
Want them here at mainline? What would YOU fly it for? Without knowing what each airline's benefit package is worth to it's respective pilots, let's play a game, but we have to make an assumption. Let's say that mainline's benefits package is worth 25% more than DCI's. Would that be fair? IT would mean that in order to compare payrates, we would have to subtract 25% from DCIs payrates in order to make them cost neutral to come to mainline. Ready...? A 7 year captain at Comair makes $79/hour. Care to do the math and tell me if we could fly them on mainline for that?
This is small potatoes in the big scheme of things. They will be capped... there is no reason to ever revisit that.. and it rids ous of 50s. There is too much obsession here. I don't have a problem with the theory, I have a problem with the sheer amount of additional jumbo RJs we are allowing in, and the amount of 70's and 50's allowed to remain. This TA doesn't rid us of 50s, either. It puts us about 5 years ahead on the count, and provides more 70's than would be around in 2015 to remain. (98 are committed to through 2015.. why not make that the cap?... don't forget that only 144 76 seaters are committed to through 2015) Oh, and let me know how many year 7 Comair captains there are... Speaking of capped. Wasn't 255 a cap? Hasn't that now been revisited? Or were you sucked in by the all caps "HARD CAP" from the bullet points? We're changing one cap for another cap. |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1199112)
We have payrates at DL for the 900s, and the CA rates are quite in line with what the actual pilots flying 900s at the regionals make. The FOs make more, management wants the whipsaw, and management wants a way out of the leases.
I don't have a problem with the theory, I have a problem with the sheer amount of additional jumbo RJs we are allowing. This TA doesn't rid us of 50s, either. It puts us about 5 years ahead on the count. Oh, and let me know how many year 7 Comair captains there are... Speaking of capped. Wasn't 255 a cap? Hasn't that now been revisited? Or were you sucked in by the all caps "HARD CAP" from the bullet points? We're changing one cap for another cap. Yeah 255 was a cap. Things change, and this was an opportunity to get rid of those 50s.. as you said.. 5 years early. Management will probably come to us in 3 years asking for more in order to get rid of the remaining 50s.. But for now I think it a good trade. More of OUR guys will make more money sooner. The 76s aren't worth our time to fight like we are fighting. The 90s are ours.. and anything bigger obviously is. Turning this down will ensure the 50s are here a lot longer, and that will continue the stagnation. If you are OK with that, I am too. This is a good deal for the junior guys, and IMHO it will hurt them more to turn this down than it will me. The money sure would be nice though... Oh, and I didn't read any bullet points.. I read the TA itself. I haven't read any NPs until afterwards for clarification of my conclusions. |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1199112)
Oh, and let me know how many year 7 Comair captains there are... Speaking of capped. Wasn't 255 a cap? Hasn't that now been revisited? Or were you sucked in by the all caps "HARD CAP" from the bullet points? We're changing one cap for another cap. Clamp, Biggest problem with the whole outsourcing issue right there - there are no "real" caps. No Scope Cap has actually stopped DCI growth. At times these so called CAPs have delayed growth until they could be contractually circumnavigated, either through "mis-interpretation" or mutual consent. It would probably take at least three years for us to get to the new 76 "limit" and guess what happens then? Scoop |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1199112)
We have payrates at DL for the 900s, and the CA rates are quite in line with what the actual pilots flying 900s at the regionals make. The FOs make more, management wants the whipsaw, and management wants a way out of the leases.
I don't have a problem with the theory, I have a problem with the sheer amount of additional jumbo RJs we are allowing in, and the amount of 70's and 50's allowed to remain. This TA doesn't rid us of 50s, either. It puts us about 5 years ahead on the count, and provides more 70's than would be around in 2015 to remain. (98 are committed to through 2015.. why not make that the cap?... don't forget that only 144 76 seaters are committed to through 2015) Oh, and let me know how many year 7 Comair captains there are... Speaking of capped. Wasn't 255 a cap? Hasn't that now been revisited? Or were you sucked in by the all caps "HARD CAP" from the bullet points? We're changing one cap for another cap. TEN |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1199114)
There probably aren't any 7 year captains at Comair. And for those kind of rates, there won't be any at DAL either.. they will all be new hires.
Yeah 255 was a cap. Things change, and this was an opportunity to get rid of those 50s.. as you said.. 5 years early. Management will probably come to us in 3 years asking for more in order to get rid of the remaining 50s.. But for now I think it a good trade. More of OUR guys will make more money sooner. The 76s aren't worth our time to fight like we are fighting. The 90s are ours.. and anything bigger obviously is. Turning this down will ensure the 50s are here a lot longer, and that will continue the stagnation. If you are OK with that, I am too. This is a good deal for the junior guys, and IMHO it will hurt them more to turn this down than it will me. The money sure would be nice though... Oh, and I didn't read any bullet points.. I read the TA itself. I haven't read any NPs until afterwards for clarification of my conclusions. |
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 1199018)
That's not the way it has worked so far...we once had a whole lot more 50 seat rj's and the first ones were delivered in 1993. That means a whole lot of them left when their DCI or EDC contracts were up, and that was well before 20 years. The 700's and EMB-170's are similary situated.
There's 311 of the 50's obligated through the end of 2015 . |
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