Airline Pilot Central Forums - LAX LEC brief on TA---great read

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL73n (Post 1201251)

ACL - great post. I wished DALPA would present a more balanced view of this TA than the total sales job that is being pushed. The viewpoints of the DTW and MSP reps should be vetted (the same way as NNPs are vetted) and forwarded to the membership. We shouldn't have to rely on APC to get copies of some of these e-mails (not as enamored as the LAX LEC's e-mail as Bill Lumberg is).

I would like to see a webcast of all the roadshows. I would be very interested in hearing what DTW and MSP reps have to say. But if they are not onboard with the majority will ALPA allow them to present the TA even though they do not agree with it? If they dont they have to let them talk.. Just asking

Quote:

Originally Posted by CVG767A (Post 1200778)

I'm heading to the CVG road show today. Any suggested questions?

So CVG, how was the roadshow? Apparently a synopsis was posted on the DALPA Forums then removed. Do you have feedback? At least ALPA couldn't pull it out here...lawyers & stuff notwithstanding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoydKelly (Post 1201249)

Lawyers won't let us.

I'm in long term read only mode.

Hopefully pointing out our contact details won't get anybody sued ;)

Boyd, I'm not in your council, I'm in 20. I've said for the longest time that our biggest failing as pilots is ALLOWING our union to become a top-down organization. MEC types here jumped on me right away proclaiming I know nothing of the ALPA constitution and bylaws. Your comment bolded above is just another example that I am correct, and I really wish I wasn't. Those lawyers work for YOU sir! They have no business preventing you from a damn thing much less performing your most important role which is communicating with us. Not just pointing out dry facts in one direction, but communicating...back and forth with those you represent.

Totally unsat man.

Carl

From DALPA Forums:

Quote:

Here are some of the highlights:

COMPENSATION
-Total contract improvement of $420 million per year.*
- From the survey, pilots wanted to convert profit sharing "risky" into guarenteed money "payrates".*
-MD88 pay brought up to MD90
-Matching the MD90 to the A319/320 rate was never discussed at the MEC level.* This shocked quite a few CVG pilots.
-The average pay hours for 2011 was 87 hours.* That's why the union used 87 hours in their projections.

STAFFING
- They expect 250 pilots to take the early out.
-Reduction of 300 pilots for efficiencies (ALV, 30 day month throughout summer)
-Addition of 72 pilots for know absense reporting and new staffing formula.
-Impact is neutral.

SCOPE
-88 717's begin arriving in 2nd qtr of 2013.* All aircraft should be on property within the next 3 years.* The planes come from Boeing and the MEC chairman stated that Boeing won't be transferring any pilots.
-15.5% reduction in seats flown by DCI.

-Sick leave:* 2,300 pilots used 0 sick time in 2011.* 85% used less than 100 hours.* Of the 15% that used over 100 hours, 2/3 of those pilots ended up on long term disability.*

Somebody else can add the other nuggets.

I would clarify the compensation improvement. That is what I have heard for 2015 valuation, not 2013 and not 2014 by a long shot.

Ask if we got a bargaining credit for the rj cpa lease changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1201295)

I don't always agree with you Carl, but that comment is dead on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1201499)

I would clarify the compensation improvement. That is what I have heard for 2015 valuation, not 2013 and not 2014 by a long shot.

Ask if we got a bargaining credit for the rj cpa lease changes.

And what "credit" did we get for the 99.9Klbs jets at non union DPJ that we just gave back after we won the grievance? That was inexcusable.

"Restored disability plan language (C2K) has no value - unless you find yourself unable to hold a First Class medical certificate"

Sounds good, but not true. TA restores part of disability, but not to C2K. Since the creation of the DAL D&S (1972) pay was 50% of your highest 12 months out of your last 36 months. For the rest of your life!!! That part was not restored.

Question on same subject: Does the TA increase the DC contribution for a pilot on disability? If I understand correctly, working pilots receive 14% of their gross in total DC contributions, while disabled pilots receive 22% (to represent the amount they would be getting if they were flying a full month. This came into effect when the lifetime disability benefit was changed to disability until retirement age.).

I do see the change in the TA as good positive improvement for the pilot group. I hope to never need this benefit. However, it is not restoration back to C2K.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1201295)

Last post, back to lurking...

Both the UAL and DAL injunctions are what hinders this ability.

I am bound by the court to follow that and stop pilots from violating it.

That can not be done on a public anonymous forum. Period.

In the UAL injunction they subpoenaed personal phones, computers, hard drives, texts, IM and forum posts.

In a USAirways case the court heard testimony that an anonymous post on a Yahoo! financial message board was a concerted effort.

It's just a legal impossibility with the injunctions and the fact anyone can join and say what they feel with impunity.

The next time an airline files a subpoena for a forum, it will likely include many of the airline ones like this.

I just wanted to post once making sure that guys can contact us.

Fly safe y'all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Columbia (Post 1200983)

Yep-it ain't "standard boilerplate" IMO.

Really?

From the NWA 2006 Contract:

Quote:

B.3.d.(2) In addition, except as provided in Section 1 B.3.d.(1) ��, the Company shall make reasonable efforts,........

B.3.b. Before any determination that the Company and the Acquired Airline constitute a single transportation system, the Company and the Association shall make a good faith effort to agree.....

It is understood that the Company and the Association will make every reasonable effort to establish.......

Exception: The Company shall be excused from the obligationset forth in subparagraph D.3. above in the event of a “circumstance over which the Company does not have control” as that phrase is defined in Section 2 O.

From the current Fedex CBA:

Quote:

The term “Emergency” shall include a situation beyond the Company’s Control as well as a situation or occurrence of a serious nature, developing suddenly and unexpectedly, and demanding immediate action.

the Company shall make best efforts to reposition the pilot for the trip.

The Company shall make best efforts to provide pilots at least 30 calendar days notice of the offer of voluntary furloughs, with a copy to the
Association.

No notice or pay shall be required if the furlough is the result of circumstances beyond the Company’s control.

From the United CBA:

Quote:

1-F-2 Changed Circumstances
The following will govern the Company's obligations under this Section 1-F in the event the Company experiences changed economic circumstances beyond the Company's control:

In addition to the Company's ability to reduce flight operations under the terms and conditions described in paragraph F-2-a (Substantial Economic Change), the commitments and protections described in paragraph F-1
(Block Hours Guarantee) above may be modified if and only to the extent that the Company demonstrates that any such modification is a direct result of a circumstance beyond the Company's control.

20-F-4-h Notwithstanding the five percent (5%) limit SSC consultation
above, in the event of a major disruption to service
outside of the Company’s control (such as that created by
the 1981 Air Traffic Controller’s strike), the Company may
revise schedules to the extent necessary to maintain the
highest level of service possible.

From the CAL CBA:

Quote:

“Circumstance beyond the Company’s Control” means an act of nature; an ongoing labor dispute; grounding or repossession of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency or a court order; loss or destruction of the Company’s aircraft; involuntary reduction in flying operations due either to governmental action(s)/requirement(s) or to a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical materials for the Company’s operation; revocation of the Company’s operating certificate(s); war emergency; a terrorist act, or a substantial delay in the delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery, provided that one of these listed occurrences has a material and substantial impact on the Company.

The Company will be excused from compliance with Paragraphs C.1, C.2, C.6, D.2, and D.3 above for the period of time that a Circumstance Beyond the Company’s Control is the cause of such non-compliance.

The Company will be excused from compliance with such minimum scheduled aircraft block hours for the period of time that either a Circumstance beyond the Company’s Control.....

From the AA CBA:

Quote:

In the event that the Company’s planned aircraft deliveries do not take place as scheduled due to conditions beyond the Company’s control, then for 12 months from the scheduled delivery date, so long as the scheduled deliveries remain firm orders to be delivered as soon as
circumstances permit, the aircraft shall be counted as though they had
been timely delivered.
If the Company is unable to operate Company aircraft due to conditions
beyond the Company’s control, then the Company may count such aircraft as in operation for purposes of b.(1)

Don't let your opinion get in the way of facts.

There were more examples but I got bored. That was a only about 10 minutes of research.

Looks pretty "boilerplate" to me!