They probably have plan B, which doesn't include negotiationg with us for a time until the CEO "has time" for us. That could be 2 years from now, according to the head of the NMB. Go ahead, gamble away.

So, you're willing to possibly throw away about 20% pay increase over 3 years, and other improvements to a "guess?" You are guessing that the company will re-engage, right?

Wouldn't they look at the pilot contract survey results and try to improve the portions of the T/A that fell short of the wishes of the pilots the MEC and negotiators represent?

Seems pretty simple to me.

You're not helping your case Bill:

If we vote the TA in,

We'll still have pay a lower than SWA. It only gets closer in the last year...3 years from now.

The computer system that generates the rotations for MINIMUM soft time penatly will simply move to a different parameter to make crappy trips crappy.

We'll allow management, who are shackled to 50 seat RJs that do not effectively replace mainline flying AND are reaching the end of their economic life cycle, to replace them with aircraft that are MUCH closer to mainline CASM (if not better), and will have another 20-25 years of life to them.

We'll STILL have terrible sick leave, abiet one with a CODIFIED method of sick leave counseling.

I will agree on the last point. TA or no TA there will still be 200 guys that won't retire early.

Nu

No more so than you are guessing that they won't.

I don't need the raise. One more 76 seater is unacceptable to me under any circumstances, however.

You are free to vote your priorities and live with your decision.

Nu

What are the beans that they are gonna throw? THAT is the question, and there is no quick answer to that. THAT is my point Nu. IF it goes down, can you tell me WHY the TA is voted down? Can you tell me that with the certainty required to sit at the other side of the negotiations table and present that offer/request to the company? NO.. you can't. Not with any competence.

I'm good with the scope, it is a clear win for the bottom of the list. I would like more money, but I can live with what was offered because it is a 3 year deal. What will make my blood boil is if we go back to negotiations and get an additional 1-2% per year and a five year deal instead of 3. That would be stupid. But it would be above SWA, I guess.:rolleyes:

They apparently found the beans to offer the non-contract employees a nice unscheduled raise.

The question becomes, since our TA was clearly the genesis of THEIR pay raise, should they not pay ALPA an agency fee for making it happen?

Nu

OK.. you look at the survey. The OLD survey. What if there were some gains made that exceeded the survey? Contrary to popular belief, I'll bet that there were actually some areas that were BETTER than that survey determined. So we now have those gains. Are you willing to let those go back to OLD information, because we now know that the company was willing to "cave" in some other areas that were also important to us. (If this is not the case, then maybe the survey idea is flawed from the beginning as it should have only contained 2 questions.. pay and scope).

We made gains in this TA. Some could be better, some could be worse. The gains are good enough IMHO in conjunction with the fact that it is a 3 year deal and everybody will negotiate after us before we start the next one, so it will be their chance to raise the bar. I will bet YOU a cold case of beer that UAL or USAir/AMR will NOT better this deal before we are in the next section 6. SWA might... but that is because they will take a small incremental pay increase like they have been doing for the last 20 years... but that will be easily trumped in 3 years.. Everybody wants what SWA has, but we continually refuse to learn how they got to where they are... slow and steady wins the race. They will keep winning as long as we keep trying to do what we have been doing forever and ever....

So it's strictly money then... in NU's opinion. Well in tsquare's opinion, it's medical and retirement.... or was it the reserve system..?? "sometimes in all this excitement I lost count myself." I don't care about the money. I certainly do not care what the non contract employees are getting.. or not getting.. SO how would the company/DALPA negotiator's know what is important to the pilot group without asking?

But wait a minute.. You just said that since the non-contract employees got a nonscheduled raise, that that is a bean the company could throw us... but you NOW say that the money is not an issue for YOU...

And you are apparently willing to live with 102 more 76 seaters that we will likely see under the current agreement.

You confuse me. I am glad I am not negotiating on Nu's wishes.. I would have no idea what he wants...

And you too are free to vote as you see fit, so thanks for reminding me that I am as well. I will be very happy if this passes, as will you when you see the gains you will be getting, both now and in about 3 years.