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Old 06-05-2012, 03:35 AM   #1  
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Default You're a 4

Talking in the crashpad last night and one of the ER Captains (97 or so hire) looks at me and says you're 4. After the deer in the headlights look, he went on to say "If the 4 in the 4/8.5/3/3 were a 10 or even an 8.5, you'd be for the contract"

After a little bit of reflection, I realized he may have a point. Now I know all about wishing won't make it so, but it got me thinking.

If they magically waived a wand and changed the DOS raise (without more concessions) would your vote change? Discuss amongst yourselves.
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:42 AM   #2  
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For me, still a no. Big RJs would still stick in my craw. 10% on the front would probably be enough for quite a few, though.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:15 AM   #3  
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Consider the 4% as a signing bonus that keeps on giving (compounds the rates going forward)... This is half of a year prior to the amendable date.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:26 AM   #4  
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Consider the 4% as a signing bonus that keeps on giving (compounds the rates going forward)... This is half of a year prior to the amendable date.
Yup. For the most part, I am looking at this as an extension. And here's why it is a good thing even given the rates (which are actually pretty good given the state of the industry/economy) And I will just give you the bullet points and let you connect the dots yourselves.

Look at our debt.
Look at the paydown schedule
Look at when the projected $10 billion line will occur, and how much in interest payments will be saved by the company
Look at when this contract will become amendable.

Connect dots.

The only fly in THIS ointment is the question of who is gonna jump the bar we will (hopefully) set with this TA.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:27 AM   #5  
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For me, still a no. Big RJs would still stick in my craw. 10% on the front would probably be enough for quite a few, though.
Again with the RJs... still blind to the facts I see... that's a shame.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:32 AM   #6  
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Yup. For the most part, I am looking at this as an extension. And here's why it is a good thing even given the rates (which are actually pretty good given the state of the industry/economy) And I will just give you the bullet points and let you connect the dots yourselves.

Look at our debt.
Look at the paydown schedule
Look at when the projected $10 billion line will occur, and how much in interest payments will be saved by the company
Look at when this contract will become amendable.

Connect dots.

The only fly in THIS ointment is the question of who is gonna jump the bar we will (hopefully) set with this TA.
I also think this is mainly an extension. Just wish we would have left everything else alone and not given up jobs with the increased reserve rules. There are some positives, but overall think the tone was concessionary with the same raises that the rest of the employee group got didn't recognize the sacrifices the pilot group made in BK.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:43 AM   #7  
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I also think this is mainly an extension. Just wish we would have left everything else alone and not given up jobs with the increased reserve rules. There are some positives, but overall think the tone was concessionary with the same raises that the rest of the employee group got didn't recognize the sacrifices the pilot group made in BK.
I know I am gonna regret this so cue the "we'll get 'em next time crowd".

But...

Our timing will be much much better in 2.5 years. with this extension for the reasons I have stated above, and HOPEFULLY, UniCal will do SOMETHING... and the AMR trainwreck will be solved. (however that goes down) We do not operate in a vacuum, and we are not alone.... yet.

Fire away
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:00 AM   #8  
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4% before the amendable date? Sure.

Don't know why they did not combine it and the 8 for a more headline friendly 12.5%
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:08 AM   #9  
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If 5/10/5/5 was it, I'd be a fence sitter then. But since it's not, NO.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:24 AM   #10  
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I know I am gonna regret this so cue the "we'll get 'em next time crowd".

But...

Our timing will be much much better in 2.5 years. with this extension for the reasons I have stated above, and HOPEFULLY, UniCal will do SOMETHING... and the AMR trainwreck will be solved. (however that goes down) We do not operate in a vacuum, and we are not alone.... yet.

Fire away
T, there won't be much of a next time after we have 325 EMB-170/175, CRJ-700 and MORE 90-seat CRJ-900 with long term lease agreements. I know quite a few pilots at other airlines and no one is proud of the fact we are trading tired 50-seaters for what will be the worst scope in the industry. Mark my word, should this TA pass it will embolden management teams all over to shift the line in the sand and the fallout will be THOUSANDS of 90-seat jets paying a quarter of what a fNWA pilot made under a BK contract flying a DC-9-30. As far as getting them next time, our only chance is now. The only thing this TA and the Moakster will represent for our profession is broke D-scale pilots operating mainline equipment at $80/hr left seat and $24/hr right seat.

Lastly, a certain type of economic event rears its head about every 7 years, I wouldn't bank on favorable conditions in three years. I am connecting the dots, just differently than you. As far as the TA as a whole, too many caveats for management, they will exploit them.
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