View Poll Results: My plan for turning this down is:
1. I know a better deal will be offered w/out Sec 6. I can point to a non-strike precedent.
6
11.76%
2. I suspect a better deal is coming soon, based on a hunch the company is bluffing.
9
17.65%
3. I hope there is a better deal coming, and I have no idea of how it's going to happen.
3
5.88%
4. I am prepared to sit tight for Section 6; I know this agreement is non-prejudicial.
33
64.71%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll
NO Voter Poll - Show us the Way
06-11-2012, 11:24 PM
#61
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by rvr350
Bill,
I don't think most of the no voters wanted the cake and eat it too. They just want some balance in the TA that improves their QOL and also protect their careers as well. You vote your way because you feel the payraises are enough and you feel the 200 50seat rj removal and 70 large rj is acceptable.
I want solid scope improvement, aka close loopholes for future rjs, and sunset clauses. I am not foolish enough to demand we take down dci overnite, but i dont want to see us giving them a lifeline either. That didnt happen, and that's why i vote the way i vote. You dont need to preach us what is surrounding us, how our competitors are doing. I'd rather mind our own shop, and take care of our problems that was caused by no one other than us, in the first place.
I don't think most of the no voters wanted the cake and eat it too. They just want some balance in the TA that improves their QOL and also protect their careers as well. You vote your way because you feel the payraises are enough and you feel the 200 50seat rj removal and 70 large rj is acceptable.
I want solid scope improvement, aka close loopholes for future rjs, and sunset clauses. I am not foolish enough to demand we take down dci overnite, but i dont want to see us giving them a lifeline either. That didnt happen, and that's why i vote the way i vote. You dont need to preach us what is surrounding us, how our competitors are doing. I'd rather mind our own shop, and take care of our problems that was caused by no one other than us, in the first place.
06-12-2012, 02:48 AM
#62
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by rvr350
Bill,
I don't think most of the no voters wanted the cake and eat it too. They just want some balance in the TA that improves their QOL and also protect their careers as well. You vote your way because you feel the payraises are enough and you feel the 200 50seat rj removal and 70 large rj is acceptable.
I want solid scope improvement, aka close loopholes for future rjs, and sunset clauses. I am not foolish enough to demand we take down dci overnite, but i dont want to see us giving them a lifeline either. That didnt happen, and that's why i vote the way i vote. You dont need to preach us what is surrounding us, how our competitors are doing. I'd rather mind our own shop, and take care of our problems that was caused by no one other than us, in the first place.
I don't think most of the no voters wanted the cake and eat it too. They just want some balance in the TA that improves their QOL and also protect their careers as well. You vote your way because you feel the payraises are enough and you feel the 200 50seat rj removal and 70 large rj is acceptable.
I want solid scope improvement, aka close loopholes for future rjs, and sunset clauses. I am not foolish enough to demand we take down dci overnite, but i dont want to see us giving them a lifeline either. That didnt happen, and that's why i vote the way i vote. You dont need to preach us what is surrounding us, how our competitors are doing. I'd rather mind our own shop, and take care of our problems that was caused by no one other than us, in the first place.
Well said. Most will argue that its too much of risk to turn this down for that, but its my opinion that a lot of little things add up quickly within this TA. There are a few that are big items but most are small and as a stand a lone would not result in a NO vote. Added together, it makes one look at this TA and decide that it needs to go back and get tightened. Myself included.
06-12-2012, 03:40 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Haha, ftb.
I've got to love the condescending survey choices that Sink picked out... trying to spin that if you vote no you have no plan.
I've got to love the condescending survey choices that Sink picked out... trying to spin that if you vote no you have no plan.
06-12-2012, 09:29 AM
#64
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Originally Posted by crewdawg52
52's are uglier, fatter, and slower.................. but delievers a bigger load!
Here's an experimental B-52 equipped with F-22 engines!
8 x Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 afterburning turbofan engines with a total of 35,000 x 8 = 280,000 lbs of thrust!!! Giddyap!
06-12-2012, 09:38 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by Elvis90
This is for you, crewdawg! Meant to do it last night, but the WIFI at the Indianapolis layover was too slow.
Here's an experimental B-52 equipped with F-22 engines!
8 x Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 afterburning turbofan engines with a total of 35,000 x 8 = 280,000 lbs of thrust!!! Giddyap!
Here's an experimental B-52 equipped with F-22 engines!
8 x Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 afterburning turbofan engines with a total of 35,000 x 8 = 280,000 lbs of thrust!!! Giddyap!
06-13-2012, 02:13 AM
#66
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I love that the no voters are castigated for being "emotional" and then told they need to fear the punitive retribution that comes from saying no.
06-13-2012, 02:55 AM
#67
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
FTB - It's called a 'Straw Man' Argument
Straw man
Straw man: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresenting an opponent's position so as to more easily refute it.
Example
Person A: Sunny days are good.
Person B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death. Therefore, you are wrong.
Problem: B has misrepresented A's claim by falsely suggesting that A claimed that only sunny days are good, and then B refuted the misrepresented version of the claim, rather than refuting A's original assertion.
Straw man: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresenting an opponent's position so as to more easily refute it.
Example
Person A: Sunny days are good.
Person B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death. Therefore, you are wrong.
Problem: B has misrepresented A's claim by falsely suggesting that A claimed that only sunny days are good, and then B refuted the misrepresented version of the claim, rather than refuting A's original assertion.
06-13-2012, 03:37 AM
#68
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Elvis90
Straw man
Straw man: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresenting an opponent's position so as to more easily refute it.
Example
Person A: Sunny days are good.
Person B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death. Therefore, you are wrong.
Problem: B has misrepresented A's claim by falsely suggesting that A claimed that only sunny days are good, and then B refuted the misrepresented version of the claim, rather than refuting A's original assertion.
Straw man: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresenting an opponent's position so as to more easily refute it.
Example
Person A: Sunny days are good.
Person B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death. Therefore, you are wrong.
Problem: B has misrepresented A's claim by falsely suggesting that A claimed that only sunny days are good, and then B refuted the misrepresented version of the claim, rather than refuting A's original assertion.
Seems to work every time though.
06-13-2012, 05:56 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: C130
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by Elvis90
Straw man
Straw man: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresenting an opponent's position so as to more easily refute it.
Example
Person A: Sunny days are good.
Person B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death. Therefore, you are wrong.
Problem: B has misrepresented A's claim by falsely suggesting that A claimed that only sunny days are good, and then B refuted the misrepresented version of the claim, rather than refuting A's original assertion.
Straw man: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresenting an opponent's position so as to more easily refute it.
Example
Person A: Sunny days are good.
Person B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death. Therefore, you are wrong.
Problem: B has misrepresented A's claim by falsely suggesting that A claimed that only sunny days are good, and then B refuted the misrepresented version of the claim, rather than refuting A's original assertion.
06-13-2012, 09:45 AM
#70
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by grasshopper
It's the cornerstone of any good propanganda
We have industry leading pay with this contract! We have industry leading scope!
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