Maybe something that we can all agree on?
06-27-2012, 04:45 PM
#1
Back on TDY
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Maybe something that we can all agree on?
As we get near the end of this TA vote, two things continue to strike me as something that we might be able to all agree on:
1. This TA did not meet the results of the pilot's survey for pay and scope.
2. Mr. O'Malley stated that even though point #1 might be true, the pilot's demands on the contract survey were "out of context."
My intent of this thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of the TA as that's been done to death here. My intent is simply to discuss the message we will be sending to our union and to management. I'm very concerned that the only "loud and clear" message we will be sending is that it's OK to ignore pilot surveys. All you have to do as an MEC admin is to state that the pilots wishes were "out of context", and voila...survey ignored.
While I'm also quite concerned about the MEC's broken promises (such as a con paper being published and that they wouldn't "sell" their product), it's not as appalling to me as ignoring our desires. We will be sending a message to everyone that we're OK with ceding our control of the union to our MEC administration.
As the few undecided's out there consider their final decision, please keep this point in mind. I strongly believe we will send a terrible message to our union and management if we acquiesce to a TA that we all know didn't meet our demands. In the future, our opinions will be met with politeness, then rolled eyes when our backs are turned. Because all will know that we're OK with ignoring our thoughts...if our union sells it hard enough.
Carl
1. This TA did not meet the results of the pilot's survey for pay and scope.
2. Mr. O'Malley stated that even though point #1 might be true, the pilot's demands on the contract survey were "out of context."
My intent of this thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of the TA as that's been done to death here. My intent is simply to discuss the message we will be sending to our union and to management. I'm very concerned that the only "loud and clear" message we will be sending is that it's OK to ignore pilot surveys. All you have to do as an MEC admin is to state that the pilots wishes were "out of context", and voila...survey ignored.
While I'm also quite concerned about the MEC's broken promises (such as a con paper being published and that they wouldn't "sell" their product), it's not as appalling to me as ignoring our desires. We will be sending a message to everyone that we're OK with ceding our control of the union to our MEC administration.
As the few undecided's out there consider their final decision, please keep this point in mind. I strongly believe we will send a terrible message to our union and management if we acquiesce to a TA that we all know didn't meet our demands. In the future, our opinions will be met with politeness, then rolled eyes when our backs are turned. Because all will know that we're OK with ignoring our thoughts...if our union sells it hard enough.
Carl
06-27-2012, 06:21 PM
#2
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
As we get near the end of this TA vote, two things continue to strike me as something that we might be able to all agree on:
1. This TA did not meet the results of the pilot's survey for pay and scope.
2. Mr. O'Malley stated that even though point #1 might be true, the pilot's demands on the contract survey were "out of context."
My intent of this thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of the TA as that's been done to death here. My intent is simply to discuss the message we will be sending to our union and to management. I'm very concerned that the only "loud and clear" message we will be sending is that it's OK to ignore pilot surveys. All you have to do as an MEC admin is to state that the pilots wishes were "out of context", and voila...survey ignored.
While I'm also quite concerned about the MEC's broken promises (such as a con paper being published and that they wouldn't "sell" their product), it's not as appalling to me as ignoring our desires. We will be sending a message to everyone that we're OK with ceding our control of the union to our MEC administration.
As the few undecided's out there consider their final decision, please keep this point in mind. I strongly believe we will send a terrible message to our union and management if we acquiesce to a TA that we all know didn't meet our demands. In the future, our opinions will be met with politeness, then rolled eyes when our backs are turned. Because all will know that we're OK with ignoring our thoughts...if our union sells it hard enough.
Carl
1. This TA did not meet the results of the pilot's survey for pay and scope.
2. Mr. O'Malley stated that even though point #1 might be true, the pilot's demands on the contract survey were "out of context."
My intent of this thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of the TA as that's been done to death here. My intent is simply to discuss the message we will be sending to our union and to management. I'm very concerned that the only "loud and clear" message we will be sending is that it's OK to ignore pilot surveys. All you have to do as an MEC admin is to state that the pilots wishes were "out of context", and voila...survey ignored.
While I'm also quite concerned about the MEC's broken promises (such as a con paper being published and that they wouldn't "sell" their product), it's not as appalling to me as ignoring our desires. We will be sending a message to everyone that we're OK with ceding our control of the union to our MEC administration.
As the few undecided's out there consider their final decision, please keep this point in mind. I strongly believe we will send a terrible message to our union and management if we acquiesce to a TA that we all know didn't meet our demands. In the future, our opinions will be met with politeness, then rolled eyes when our backs are turned. Because all will know that we're OK with ignoring our thoughts...if our union sells it hard enough.
Carl
TA or not and for many, many reasons I've thought DALPA and ALPA useless for a long time.
I was "pleased" today that the world's most expensive magazine arrived in my mailbox, luckily the trash can was nearby.
06-27-2012, 08:30 PM
#3
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I agree. Next time there is a survey I am not filling it out. That was a waste of time.
06-27-2012, 08:31 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 757/767
Posts: 588
When surveyed, 100% of my household wanted $10,000 for my car. Someone offered $9,500 for the car and I took it. If the survey would have been followed I would have a car worth $9,500.
06-27-2012, 08:34 PM
#5
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
Re. the Survey, I find it funny that over a year ago, before the survey, we were hearing rumors that Richard wanted a two year contract extension for a 20% raise.
And now, after all the nonsense, we've got....a two year contract extension, for a 20% raise.
Oh, and more big RJ's.
I guess next time we can just ask Richard what he wants, and avoid all the nonsense about what WE want.
And now, after all the nonsense, we've got....a two year contract extension, for a 20% raise.
Oh, and more big RJ's.
I guess next time we can just ask Richard what he wants, and avoid all the nonsense about what WE want.
06-27-2012, 09:10 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
As we get near the end of this TA vote, two things continue to strike me as something that we might be able to all agree on:
1. This TA did not meet the results of the pilot's survey for pay and scope.
2. Mr. O'Malley stated that even though point #1 might be true, the pilot's demands on the contract survey were "out of context."
My intent of this thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of the TA as that's been done to death here. My intent is simply to discuss the message we will be sending to our union and to management. I'm very concerned that the only "loud and clear" message we will be sending is that it's OK to ignore pilot surveys. All you have to do as an MEC admin is to state that the pilots wishes were "out of context", and voila...survey ignored.
While I'm also quite concerned about the MEC's broken promises (such as a con paper being published and that they wouldn't "sell" their product), it's not as appalling to me as ignoring our desires. We will be sending a message to everyone that we're OK with ceding our control of the union to our MEC administration.
As the few undecided's out there consider their final decision, please keep this point in mind. I strongly believe we will send a terrible message to our union and management if we acquiesce to a TA that we all know didn't meet our demands. In the future, our opinions will be met with politeness, then rolled eyes when our backs are turned. Because all will know that we're OK with ignoring our thoughts...if our union sells it hard enough.
Carl
1. This TA did not meet the results of the pilot's survey for pay and scope.
2. Mr. O'Malley stated that even though point #1 might be true, the pilot's demands on the contract survey were "out of context."
My intent of this thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of the TA as that's been done to death here. My intent is simply to discuss the message we will be sending to our union and to management. I'm very concerned that the only "loud and clear" message we will be sending is that it's OK to ignore pilot surveys. All you have to do as an MEC admin is to state that the pilots wishes were "out of context", and voila...survey ignored.
While I'm also quite concerned about the MEC's broken promises (such as a con paper being published and that they wouldn't "sell" their product), it's not as appalling to me as ignoring our desires. We will be sending a message to everyone that we're OK with ceding our control of the union to our MEC administration.
As the few undecided's out there consider their final decision, please keep this point in mind. I strongly believe we will send a terrible message to our union and management if we acquiesce to a TA that we all know didn't meet our demands. In the future, our opinions will be met with politeness, then rolled eyes when our backs are turned. Because all will know that we're OK with ignoring our thoughts...if our union sells it hard enough.
Carl
06-27-2012, 09:13 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by Oberon
When surveyed, 100% of my household wanted $10,000 for my car. Someone offered $9,500 for the car and I took it. If the survey would have been followed I would have a car worth $9,500.
06-27-2012, 10:48 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by Timbo
Re. the Survey, I find it funny that over a year ago, before the survey, we were hearing rumors that Richard wanted a two year contract extension for a 20% raise.
And now, after all the nonsense, we've got....a two year contract extension, for a 20% raise.
Oh, and more big RJ's.
I guess next time we can just ask Richard what he wants, and avoid all the nonsense about what WE want.
And now, after all the nonsense, we've got....a two year contract extension, for a 20% raise.
Oh, and more big RJ's.
I guess next time we can just ask Richard what he wants, and avoid all the nonsense about what WE want.
Anything to make this all just go away. My brain, and strangely my groin, hurt.
06-28-2012, 03:11 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
Originally Posted by buzzpat
My brain, and strangely my groin, hurt.
06-28-2012, 03:55 AM
#10
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Delta1067
Carl, we asked for the moon on the survey. Lets say the survey asked for 40% @ DOS. Do you think that means we will get it? Join reality Carl.
We have conceded workrules.
We have conceded a portion of our profit sharing formula.
We have tracked inflation with our bankruptcy/merger payrates.
We got a few minutes tossed our way for vacation/training.
We have protected Republic and Delta private jets rather than DAL pilots.
We are 1.5 hours per day short of the daily guarantee at a "regional airline" (ALPA speak for SWA).
We have a replacement jet coming and we know what it is.
Welcome to reality. Concessions at a time of record profits.
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