Southwest Airlines
 

Hey do you guys think Southwest is going to dominate in the future? They have the HIGHEST pay for the LOWEST amount of aircraft seating. Do you think they will be some of the highest paid if all the majors start making money again? Thanks everyone.

Sir,

Tough call. SW business model is one that will allow them to stay around indefinitely, however, they will have some core issues to deal
with. I think the fact that they raised fares from $3-10 shows
they are starting to feel the pinch of expiring fuel hedges, industry
leading narrow-body pay, and labor unrest. As they are the Walmart of the aviation industry they set the tone for minimum fares. As of today I think oil is about $57/brl so they are fine with their current positions. I think, however, more fare increases are around the corner and possibly more labor unrest amongst their cabin crew. I also think that as the economy slowly rebounds people will opt more to legacy carriers with their more vast networks.

I think also their pilots receive extra pay for coming in under block which helps greatly with their patented quick turns. I suspect that they will revise that in the future as, and I'm guessing here, it leads to high fuel costs. It'll be interesting to see the slight fare increases they will have to implement over the coming years to stay profitable, but this only helps the legacy carriers. Management over there is to wise to ever let the sheets dip into the red. I doubt they will ever see an unprofitable quarter but one never knows.

J

sorry, left my crystal ball at home:D

We do not receive extra pay for flying under block. There is no "Labor Unrest" at SWA. It's not a big secret why SWA is doing so well, we do more with less. 10.3 pilots per airplane, each plane averages over 13 hours per day and our turns 20-30 minutes. One fleet, training cost are minimal compared to everyone else. Our reserves fly about 90% of the time and the pilots are the most productive in the industry. Yes we work hard but our pay reflects that.

Thanks for clearing that up and I agree, you guys do work hard.

J

One more question. How much O/T does the average Southwest guy fly? I use to fly fast to come in under block, but still get paid trip value which freed up more time for OT. Is that how you guys do it? Educate me. Thanks in advance.
J

That depends on each pilot. I know some FO's and Captains that don't do any extra fly. I know some that did a ton this year. I flew with one Captain who was giving his whole line away (we have very good trip trade/giveaway rules) and was doing ALL his flying for 1.5 times pay. He told me he was on par to make over 300K this year. Anyway, it's up to each individual and their needs. My first five years I did very little extra flying. This year, because some of my older kids needed a little help, I flew alot. As a six year FO I will make over 170K this year. I did work hard for the money, but it beats not even having the option of making extra.

Depends on how much work you want to do. I usually average 100-110 trips for pay per month. Thats about 85-95 hours. One month I decided to do some redecorating, or should I say my wife, and I flew 168 trips for pay. I flew everything I could for time and a half. We have some pilots that are making over 300k. They have no life! An average line has 16-18 days off a month and pays around 97-103 trips for pay for about 85 hours of flying.

ouch 85 hours actual flying a month!

a couple posts before mine said- he/she is a 6 yr/FO and will make 170k. at 122/hr. with 78 guar. (112X78X12=114.2) if i did my math correct that is around an add. 38 hours a month all year.

and they say night flying taxes the body.

Ahhhh, the key is to work smarter not harder. If you give your trips away and do all your flying at time and a half, you can make alot of money and still have quite a few days off every month. ;)

170k per year? What kind of math is that? 112X78X12=114.2 Just like you said. To make 170K you would have to fly 1459 hours or get credit for 122 average per month. You can do that at SWA. I know Net Jets and companies like that look real good on paper, 7 on 7 off and you don't fly much but how great is it sitting in a hotel room waiting for a phone call? You can only eat so many burgers and fries!

Another issue is while we may fly more hours in a year, on average, we don't work either longer days or more days per month or year than other carriers. That has been proven many times. Seeing our yearly hour totals guys from other airlines tend to freak but they freak because they are applying our hour totals to their work environment.
When we go to work we fly. We don't sit two hours everytime through a hub or change planes as often as the other guys.
What is important to me is how many days I work, not how many hours I fly. Once at work, I would rather fly than sit around an airport. Sitting around is more fatiguing than flying.

Another important benefit is the ability to fly as much or as little as one wants. I have done both extremes at different times of my career. It is a great quality of life feature to have that flexibility.

widowson
 

I agree, mostly...TAFB is a better indicator than just flying hours. Excessive airport sit generally sucks...but I do enjoy a 1.5 hr sit at mealtimes.

Also, some aircraft/airlines do offer more choices than either 6-7 legs a day OR airport sit. You probably know the FedEx deal...but my bro at CAL flies the 757 and his 4 day trips are mostly 6 leg 4 days...5-7 hour legs of reading a book/newspaper...not much airport sit at all...more time at hotels. Some of his destinations are pretty exotic.

Each his own...SWA is ideal for a lot of guys--especially ex mil guys who have seen the world already. Not sure a straight civilian guy who spent his whole regional life flying short domestic would enjoy doing nothing else...Each his own. Again, SWA is an excellent job!

Holy Shiza
 

Holy Shiza--flying 85 hours a month. YGBSM. I may have blocked 85 hours in 4 months one time at FedEx, but I'd have to do the math. Yes, it was flying at night---doing those really tough night hub turns out of Indy. One leg in (45 min), one leg out (45 min), and 18 hours off. Doing that four nights with a week off and then another 4 nights + 4 Dead heads I never used. That night flying really kicked my butt! So did the 22 days off that month.

Freight Guys Have It Better Than Anyone.
 

OK. From now on when we talk about schedules and pay maybe we should start out with a disclaimer. It could sound something this:

"The following discussion excludes cargo pilots. We, meaning us lowly passenger pilots, all recognize that cargo pilots, expecially UPS and FEDEX pilots make more money, fly less hours, have more days off, have better benefits and their companies earn higher profits than any passenger carrier. You as a cargo pilot are much cooler than any passenger pilot because you don't deal with flight attendants or passengers. You have life so good and we all wish we were you or could be just like you. Our lives suck at our respective passenger airline and we just wish we could have been hired by UPS or FEDEX."

Now is the part where you accuse me of cargo pilot envy or something like that. LOL. :p

S.B.

SB,

You forgot the part about us losers feeling like we contributed something to the bottom line and how us koolaid drinkers would do it for free. Oh! I forgot we are doing pretty well! One thing I always remember when I got into this business was the statement "boxes don't care." The next time some low life passenger tells you that that was "the best landing" they have ever had, remember that your brethren at the boxhaulers don't get stroked enough.

Oh! then remember that we get to see some fine looking women (not that I get to touch) who appreciate our expertise. Then remember (as I do) how many of them wanted to be at the lowly pax airlines but couldn't quite get through the interview!

I am amazed how making the big bucks makes those box haulers feel so good about living on the other side of the airport. We should all remember how fortunate we are to just be alive!

off the subject
 

Just heard what sounds like to me to be complete craziness but thought I'd ask anyway. Has anyone heard of Southwest funding an expansion project of an Atlanta area airport away from Hartsfield to begin operating from similar to the situation they have in Dallas? A flight attendent(based in ATL) on a flight I was recently riding on swore up & down it was definitely in the works. I personally thought the whole thing was a crock but figured I'd ask before telling the guy he's a complete moron.

kinda like comparing apples & oranges.......that pax v. freight flying, right? low block months v. high utilization of the pax a/c. pax a/c don't generate any $$ sitting around most of the day. call me crazy.:eek:

I've heard this before. I remember someone mentioning Marietta, GA, but I think the locals want all airline travel through KATL.