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Old 10-11-2012, 06:12 PM   #1  
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Default Neutral opinion needed on east/west

So fellas the latest judgement is in and I am curious to see how you neutral guys intrepet what the judge said(usapa reads it as a huge victory and so does the west) So if you have a second, read this order and let us know what you think it means.

AWAPPA Members Forum

PS If you don't care to read it, don't and save your bandwith.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:59 PM   #2  
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In the spirit of true neutrality, I couldn't log on to the website to read the verdict. Should I pull a "congress" and give you an opinion prior to knowing what it says? Two things you should know about bipartisan me; I invented the internet and I can see Russia from my back porch.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:11 PM   #3  
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I read it as the ball is the judgement, the ice cream is the NIC and the guy is the west pilot group.



I thought she would overturn the 9th to be honest. You guys will probably get the NIC in the AMR merger anyways. If you guys don't merge, I can see you giving up a little of the windfall to the east.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:20 PM   #4  
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Sorry I thought that was not locked, let me see if I can find a good link
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:33 PM   #5  
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I'm sure cactuspilot.com will have it up soon. I have had some issues with the pieces they write, but have to hand it to them for keeping everyone informed.

You asked for neutral opinions so I won't respond except to ask....why? We have a neutral answer, and really the only one that counts.

Here's the short version, but the long version has some interesting wording when you can read it:

Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:01 PM   #6  
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Actually usapa won because the judge reversed herself and dismissed the case, a case she said she would rule on.
However she did include some things in the dismissal that are very interesting.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:03 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cactiboss View Post
However she did include some things in the dismissal that are very interesting.
Agreed. Now would be a really good time for both sides to put away preconceived notions and LISTEN.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:23 PM   #8  
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So did she just rule that USAPA is free to do a DOH list?
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:33 PM   #9  
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Here are some of the crucial points she made:

When USAPA became the pilots’ new collective bargaining representative, it
succeeded “to the status of the former representative without alteration in the contract terms.”
Int’l Bhd. of Teamsters v. Texas Int’l Airlines, Inc., 717 F.2d 157, 163 (5th Cir. 1983). As
there does not appear to be any dispute that the Transition Agreement was part of the contract
between the pilots and US Airways, the Transition Agreement applies to USAPA. Even the
case which USAPA relies upon states there is a “general principle that collective bargaining
agreements survive a change in representative.” Ass’n of Flight Attendants, AFL-CIO v.
USAir, Inc., 24 F.3d 1432, 1439 (D.C. Cir. 1994). Thus, just as ALPA would have been
bound by the Transition Agreement had it remained the pilots’ representative, USAPA is
bound by the Transition Agreement.2

More:

Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach
its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award
and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so. By discarding the
result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is
running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective
bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an
appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding
the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground


and for the company's benefit she wrote:

This conclusion places US Airways in a difficult position. At the present time, it is
not possible to predict what will result from the collective bargaining negotiations. Thus, the
Court cannot grant US Airways prospective immunity from any legal action by the West
Pilots. But based on the representation at oral argument that the seniority list is unlike other
matters addressed in collective bargaining, it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully
allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate
for the Nicolau Award. See Davenport v. Int’l Broth. of Teamsters, AFL-CIO, 166 F.3d 356,
361-62 (D.C. Cir. 1999) (addressing, without deciding, “the proper standard for determining
whether an employer can be implicated in a union’s breach of duty”).
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:45 PM   #10  
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It sounds like USAPA is free to go for a new list, but everyone is free to sue if they do so.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

I stand by my 2020 or AA merger prediction.
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