N6724G

Why do professional pilots and seaoned pilots use improper phraseology? I listen to major airports on my transciever. I hear veteran airline pilots talking to ATC saying things like " out of one point three climbing for five. The AIM says you are supposed to say " out of one thousand three hundred feet climbing to five thousand feet. WHy do they say one point three. That is improper. Also while flying to airports, I hear people talking to Approach control or Tower and when calling in their inital call they will say something like "Cessna 12345 inbound for landing with the ATIS" Arent you suppsed to specify the ATIS ( Information Alpha, Broav, Charlie, etc? Again, these professional and veteran pilots go off and do there own thing. I guess they think it sounds cool. But it is not the standard

mike734

Because the AIM is a CYA document. I can't stand the idea of saying TREE instead of three. And what's up with FIFE? Some "rules" are just plain dumb. This section of the AIM probably has not been updated since the days of tube radios anyway. It just makes sense to speak in brief, concise, clear terminology. Every controller knows what one point three means.

UNDflyboy

I agree with Mike734, we always emphasize proper terminology, however that terminology doesnt always lead to the quickest and concise messages. When its busy and people need to get calls in, your not going to go through the whole phraseology correctly. Your going to improvise to make it short yet correct.

xtreme_jetlag

24G maybe you need to listen to ground frequencies at Heathrow airport and you would know why pilots speak the way they do. The AIM does not take into account the exponential growth of air traffic in the world right now. Frequencies are congested and its annoying when some FNG takes forever to say his piece.

calcapt

I think this is a good question and would like to provide my take on it. It too bothers me that overall, radio communication skills have gone down in aviation. It annoys me when I hear someone say on a non-congested radio that they have the information. What they are really saying is that "I haven't taken the time to get the ATIS, but I will tell you I have so you don't ask". That is lazy and unprofessional in my opinion but unfortunately, it happens on a routine basis. There is a distinct difference between non-congested radio lingo and say, operating in New York Class B in rush hour. You really have to differentiate between your environment as they are two different animals. If a person is not familiar with high tempo, to-the-point, radio calls, he or she is in for a lesson or two from the NY controllers. There simply is not enough time to be taking up valuable airwaves as the AIM suggests. You had better be listening up for your call sign too as the controllers will not be happy having to ask twice for something. If you have not been chewed out by a NY contoller, you are in for a treat. All the controllers want to hear from you is that you understand and will comply in as few words as possible. We should all strive to be professional on the radio and when traffic permits a thorough, complete and proper radio call should be the norm. In ORD, ATL, LAX or NYC airspace on a busy day, we simply don't have the luxury of time to do it per the AIM.

N6724G

Well, rules are not about what "you" think are dumb or what "you" like. I dont like a lot of rules, but I dont have a chocie but to follow them. Ryles and procedures are put in place for a reason. If we all just went around doing what we want, what would be the need the rules and standards in the first place?

N6724G

Ok, so if we took your logic, why even have rules inthe first place? Lets just forget about talking in phonetics and use plain text. Lets just do it anyway we want to.

calcapt

You asked the question and got answers. Stop being a dumb a.. and listen and learn. If you want to become a professional pilot you need to know when to talk and when to listen. You are talking too much and listening too little. If you insist on living the rules to a literal degree, you belong in the training department and not on the line. It really is two different worlds!

130JDrvr

N6724G,

Had that Cessna 150L smokin thru crowded airspace at 250 kts? Most people try to follow the rules but sometimes you can't.

Past....

HSLD

In short to get the job done in a over crowded ATC system. I think the guy who insists on blocking the airwaves with textbook perfect AIM phraseology during a bank arrival at O'hare would probably be on penalty vectors until after the bank.

The readback/hearback system works pretty well, and hats off to controllers who catch missed required read backs with 100% accuracy (though it doesn't happen that often that I hear).

I've always viewed verbal shortcuts as a courtesy to other aircraft and the controller who's doing the best they can to get aircraft safely through the NAS. You make the observation of professional pilots, and as such most of us have flown thousands of approaches. We know what the controller is going to say and we know what he needs to hear.