Will the US Air MOU pass?
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,481
I cant wait to be the 190 feed for American, working under the worst 190 pay rates ever, all so I can say I am an American pilot, sort of. I cant wait to vote yes.
Yea yea I know, just because the MOU says the company "may" go after a single certificate, and that a JCBA "if any" will be negotiated, doesn't mean that they will do that.
That language is just a mistake, or maybe a simple oversight, management loves us and they have always taken care of us. Nothing to see here, don't worry about the actual language, just concentrate on the pay rates other than the 190. Times will be great just ask the TWA pilots, nothin but love here.
PSST hey West pilots, I think I heard an East pilot say they dont like this MOU, you should show them and support it..
Love Doug
Yea yea I know, just because the MOU says the company "may" go after a single certificate, and that a JCBA "if any" will be negotiated, doesn't mean that they will do that.
That language is just a mistake, or maybe a simple oversight, management loves us and they have always taken care of us. Nothing to see here, don't worry about the actual language, just concentrate on the pay rates other than the 190. Times will be great just ask the TWA pilots, nothin but love here.
PSST hey West pilots, I think I heard an East pilot say they dont like this MOU, you should show them and support it..
Love Doug
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: recalled until the next round of right sizing to optimise synergies
Posts: 199
Do you seriously believe that Dug (that's how we spell it out west) won't push for single certificate? And nail down a JCBA? Everything in this is totally geared to one airline in as short a period as possible. 24 months from POR, that's the latest before single ops. The MOU was nailed down with the APA for just this reason, he does not want anything other than one list and one contract. The APA, as well, has no interest is being whipsawed. Remember, the LCC pilots passing this MOU is immaterial to the merger. The big dog is APA and the big dog gets to ride in the front seat. It doesn't matter whether we want to ride or not, if we don't we still get tossed in the back and get our ride to the vet's to get neutered.
I do agree with you that Dug, (i like it) wants a single list and a single pay scale. What I am thinking, and is allowed for under the MOU is multiple companies. Like AT and SW now, and Metrojet and USAir.
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,481
If he really wanted a single certificate he would not have said "may" when concerning getting one. Or a JCBA "if any". too many loopholes, and both sides of the Mississippi know to well what they do with those.
I do agree with you that Dug, (i like it) wants a single list and a single pay scale. What I am thinking, and is allowed for under the MOU is multiple companies. Like AT and SW now, and Metrojet and USAir.
I do agree with you that Dug, (i like it) wants a single list and a single pay scale. What I am thinking, and is allowed for under the MOU is multiple companies. Like AT and SW now, and Metrojet and USAir.
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Doing what you do, for less.
Posts: 1,792
#27
This update addresses the Change of Control (COC) provision of the US Airways East/LOA 93 contract –and specifically how it compares economically to the proposed MOU approved by the Board of Pilot Representatives.
The COC provision was designed to ensure that US Airways management deals with your union concerning major transactions such as the potential merger with American Airlines. While COC applies to some US Airways East Pilots, we were able to use it to negotiate an MOU with significant economic gains for all US Airways pilots.
Our cost estimates show that the economic values received by all US Airways pilots from the MOU exceed what only some would receive from a successfully executed grievance triggered by a Change of Control.
If the MOU is ratified and the merger is approved, all US Airways pilots will begin receiving the new MOU pay rates as of the date of the POR (estimated to be July 1, 2013) and an increase in pension contributions to 14%. In addition, all US Airways pilots will receive the new MOU pay rates retrospectively back to the date of ratification (February 8). On January 1, 2014, the pay rates increase by 8% and the pension contribution increases to 16%. All US Airways pilots will also share a $40 million lump sum payment. The MOU establishes all pilots as equal for compensation and working conditions at the POR, which will allow for the best outcome for seniority integration.
If the MOU is NOT ratified and the merger moves forward, USAPA would most probably file a grievance for the COC Scope provisions in our contract. If successful with the COC grievance, only some US Airways pilots would accrue snap back wages as of the date of the POR, since the COC provision does not apply to E-190 Pilots or West Pilots.
If this were to happen, and if USAPA is successful in pursuing a COC grievance, then the snap back wages would most likely continue until the new representative of the combined pilot group (probably APA) negotiates a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). At that time all US Airways pilots would most likely be removed from the snap back wages and provided with the same wages of the APA pilots. Barring a significant change in the industry that would support continuing the COC, those wages would be the wages currently being provided to all US Airways pilots by ratifying the MOU.
According to USAPA’s Merger Counsel, arriving at a seniority integration process with disparity in wage rates may negatively impact the outcome for US Airways pilots.
MOU Timeline
The MOU indicates that the JCBA would be concluded 13-15 months after the POR date:
4 months for a single carrier petition to be filed with the NMB
6-8 months for the NMB to issue a decision,
30 days to negotiate the JCBA
60 days to resolve any disputes in arbitration.
Note:
The COC rates would ONLY apply to EAST Group 2 pilots and above.
EAST E-190 pilots and West Pilots would NOT be included in any COC snap back wages.
The COC provision was designed to ensure that US Airways management deals with your union concerning major transactions such as the potential merger with American Airlines. While COC applies to some US Airways East Pilots, we were able to use it to negotiate an MOU with significant economic gains for all US Airways pilots.
Our cost estimates show that the economic values received by all US Airways pilots from the MOU exceed what only some would receive from a successfully executed grievance triggered by a Change of Control.
If the MOU is ratified and the merger is approved, all US Airways pilots will begin receiving the new MOU pay rates as of the date of the POR (estimated to be July 1, 2013) and an increase in pension contributions to 14%. In addition, all US Airways pilots will receive the new MOU pay rates retrospectively back to the date of ratification (February 8). On January 1, 2014, the pay rates increase by 8% and the pension contribution increases to 16%. All US Airways pilots will also share a $40 million lump sum payment. The MOU establishes all pilots as equal for compensation and working conditions at the POR, which will allow for the best outcome for seniority integration.
If the MOU is NOT ratified and the merger moves forward, USAPA would most probably file a grievance for the COC Scope provisions in our contract. If successful with the COC grievance, only some US Airways pilots would accrue snap back wages as of the date of the POR, since the COC provision does not apply to E-190 Pilots or West Pilots.
If this were to happen, and if USAPA is successful in pursuing a COC grievance, then the snap back wages would most likely continue until the new representative of the combined pilot group (probably APA) negotiates a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). At that time all US Airways pilots would most likely be removed from the snap back wages and provided with the same wages of the APA pilots. Barring a significant change in the industry that would support continuing the COC, those wages would be the wages currently being provided to all US Airways pilots by ratifying the MOU.
According to USAPA’s Merger Counsel, arriving at a seniority integration process with disparity in wage rates may negatively impact the outcome for US Airways pilots.
MOU Timeline
The MOU indicates that the JCBA would be concluded 13-15 months after the POR date:
4 months for a single carrier petition to be filed with the NMB
6-8 months for the NMB to issue a decision,
30 days to negotiate the JCBA
60 days to resolve any disputes in arbitration.
Note:
The COC rates would ONLY apply to EAST Group 2 pilots and above.
EAST E-190 pilots and West Pilots would NOT be included in any COC snap back wages.
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: recalled until the next round of right sizing to optimise synergies
Posts: 199
The last post left out one option.
If CoC is triggered, the union, at its option, can choose the language above or, can choose to extend the current contract for up to 3 years that would include a 4.5% raise per year. This option would include the 190's.
the 4.5% is on top of book rates for all except the 190. The 190 is 4.5% on top of current rates
If CoC is triggered, the union, at its option, can choose the language above or, can choose to extend the current contract for up to 3 years that would include a 4.5% raise per year. This option would include the 190's.
the 4.5% is on top of book rates for all except the 190. The 190 is 4.5% on top of current rates
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 130
The last post left out one option.
If CoC is triggered, the union, at its option, can choose the language above or, can choose to extend the current contract for up to 3 years that would include a 4.5% raise per year. This option would include the 190's.
the 4.5% is on top of book rates for all except the 190. The 190 is 4.5% on top of current rates
If CoC is triggered, the union, at its option, can choose the language above or, can choose to extend the current contract for up to 3 years that would include a 4.5% raise per year. This option would include the 190's.
the 4.5% is on top of book rates for all except the 190. The 190 is 4.5% on top of current rates
I find it amazing that there are pilots against this MOU hoping for CoC instead. This MOU offers more money to the pilot group than COC would, and all that has to be done is have it voted in. CoC is a never going to happen pipe dream that a lot of people are apparently willing to give up real money being offered to them for. I mean, seriously, look at USAPA's track record for winning things. Essentially nonexistent.
It's time to move on. This MOU is a way to do it. Don't vote no until you've at least read the thing or been to a roadshow. Otherwise you're going to be making a big mistake.
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