Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Major (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/)
-   -   787 Crews (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/73256-787-crews.html)

Moby Dick 02-22-2013 08:29 AM

Considering you can't ship Lithium Ion batteries as cargo on passenger jets, it strikes me as PURE GENIUS that Boeing decided to put 98kg of them on the plastic 787.

Now their fix?

Put the batteries in a fireproof box with vents to send the smoke and fumes overboard when (not if) they catch on fire. Again, GENIUS.

Why? Because they wouldn't use pneumatics in the A/C pressurization system to save weight.

Bid the 787? Just a guess, but my money is on it going junior in a hurry.

SoCalGuy 02-22-2013 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by nwaf16dude (Post 1357849)
So, what happens to the 787 guys under your contract when there are no 787 trips to bid? Reserve guarantee?

For March, we bid our PBS lines as if we were bidding a "regular month" of flying. For March, the bid pack was predominantly:
IAH-AMS-IAH
IAH-LHR-IAH
IAH-LOS-IAH
IAH-DEN-NRT-DEN-IAH
IAH-LAX-NRT-LAX-IAH
IAH-LAX-PVG-LAX-IAH
IAH-ORD-IAH (Turns)

When the PBS bid window closed, the PBS Magic Machine spit out each Pilot's line award as if it was a "normal month of flying". What you were awarded, is what you are paid for the month of March. The Total Line Credits (speaking for the FO's) were as high as 87:20 clear down to the low/mid 70's, min line value.

Following the March PBS bid award, the Company is planning on wiping the PBS lines clean, and putting RX (Reserve) Days over they days that each Pilot is scheduled to fly during next month. Starting in March, each 787 Pilot that is to remain with the plane during the grounding will 'plan' to be scheduled to come to Houston 2x's a month (roughly every 14 days) to complete a CQST Sim session to remain "current". The Pilot is to be scheduled to do so ONLY on the days that he/she was slotted to fly via their March PBS award. IF the Company chooses to bring the Pilot down to IAH on an "OFF" day per the Pilot's PBS bid award, the Pilot is paid an additional 3.75hrs to their March PBS bid award.

All the above info was from the L-CAL MEC Update that was dated Jan 30, 2013. As of today, I have not been contacted/told to expect different.

lolwut 02-22-2013 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by Moby Dick (Post 1358003)
Considering you can't ship Lithium Ion batteries as cargo on passenger jets, it strikes me as PURE GENIUS that Boeing decided to put 98kg of them on the plastic 787.

Now their fix?

Put the batteries in a fireproof box with vents to send the smoke and fumes overboard when (not if) they catch on fire. Again, GENIUS.

Why? Because they wouldn't use pneumatics in the A/C pressurization system to save weight.

Bid the 787? Just a guess, but my money is on it going junior in a hurry.

I think its scary that a solution to this problem is to just figure out how to better handle the fires. That means your battery is toast.

Everyone here knows that on an airliner, especially an electric jet like the 787, the battery is the final and most important backup to all the other possible failures. Its the one "guarantee" you have.

BTpilot 02-22-2013 02:32 PM


Originally Posted by SoCalGuy (Post 1358010)
For March, we bid our PBS lines as if we were bidding a "regular month" of flying. For March, the bid pack was predominantly:
IAH-AMS-IAH
IAH-LHR-IAH
IAH-LOS-IAH
IAH-DEN-NRT-DEN-IAH
IAH-LAX-NRT-LAX-IAH
IAH-LAX-PVG-LAX-IAH
IAH-ORD-IAH (Turns)

When the PBS bid window closed, the PBS Magic Machine spit out each Pilot's line award as if it was a "normal month of flying". What you were awarded, is what you are paid for the month of March. The Total Line Credits (speaking for the FO's) were as high as 87:20 clear down to the low/mid 70's, min line value.

Following the March PBS bid award, the Company is planning on wiping the PBS lines clean, and putting RX (Reserve) Days over they days that each Pilot is scheduled to fly during next month. Starting in March, each 787 Pilot that is to remain with the plane during the grounding will 'plan' to be scheduled to come to Houston 2x's a month (roughly every 14 days) to complete a CQST Sim session to remain "current". The Pilot is to be scheduled to do so ONLY on the days that he/she was slotted to fly via their March PBS award. IF the Company chooses to bring the Pilot down to IAH on an "OFF" day per the Pilot's PBS bid award, the Pilot is paid an additional 3.75hrs to their March PBS bid award.

All the above info was from the L-CAL MEC Update that was dated Jan 30, 2013. As of today, I have not been contacted/told to expect different.

Some of the 787 CA's I know that were in class are gonna go back to the previous equipment and get paid 787 wage.. They especially need 756 check airmen back apparently.. Sucks for the guys who didn't get to start class. They go back to previous equip without pay protection.

The guys who were in class just came back and did a requal MV LOE. Now they just get RX days or check airman flying for the rest of Feb and then bid what they previously held for March.

SoCalGuy 02-22-2013 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by BTpilot (Post 1358239)
Some of the 787 CA's I know that were in class are gonna go back to the previous equipment and get paid 787 wage.. They especially need 756 check airmen back apparently.. Sucks for the guys who didn't get to start class. They go back to previous equip without pay protection.

The guys who were in class just came back and did a requal MV LOE. Now they just get RX days or check airman flying for the rest of Feb and then bid what they previously held for March.

The "Cut-Off Class" to stay with the plane was the Dec 3rd (class start date) group. Classes after that were sent back to previous equipment, and pay protected starting with the Dec 27th class.

The previous brief ^^^ABOVE^^^ applied to the Pilots in the Dec 3rd class, or earlier that are to remain 'staffed' with the plane while it's grounded.

BTpilot 02-22-2013 02:44 PM


Originally Posted by SoCalGuy (Post 1358241)
The "Cut-Off Class" to stay with the plane was the Dec 3rd (class start date) group. Classes after that were sent back to previous equipment, and pay protected starting with the Dec 27th class.

The previous brief ^^^ABOVE^^^ applied to the Pilots in the Dec 3rd class, or earlier that are to remain 'staffed' with the plane while it's grounded.

Understood. Hope Boeing can get things moving.. I know yall are so anxious to hit up Lagos haha.

SoCalGuy 02-22-2013 05:32 PM


Originally Posted by BTpilot (Post 1358248)
Understood. Hope Boeing can get things moving.. I know yall are so anxious to hit up Lagos haha.

The Heart's Broken.....
The B777 fleet can keep all the Lagos trips they want;)

oldcarpilot 02-22-2013 07:23 PM


Originally Posted by Moby Dick (Post 1358003)
Considering you can't ship Lithium Ion batteries as cargo on passenger jets, it strikes me as PURE GENIUS that Boeing decided to put 98kg of them on the plastic 787.

Now their fix?

Put the batteries in a fireproof box with vents to send the smoke and fumes overboard when (not if) they catch on fire. Again, GENIUS.

Why? Because they wouldn't use pneumatics in the A/C pressurization system to save weight.

Bid the 787? Just a guess, but my money is on it going junior in a hurry.

Some how I doubt the batteries were heating the leading edges.
We now have many cars that have a large amount of these batteries driving around every day charging and discharging more than probably happens on these aircraft. Fix the over heating problem and its no big deal. Put it in a fire proof box and we're all the better.

WS01 02-22-2013 09:17 PM

Car battery catches on fire :
Pull over, get out, watch car burn, call insurance company

Plane battery catches on fire over the pole or the ocean... Different story

Scott Stoops 02-23-2013 05:02 AM


Originally Posted by oldcarpilot (Post 1358422)
Some how I doubt the batteries were heating the leading edges.
We now have many cars that have a large amount of these batteries driving around every day charging and discharging more than probably happens on these aircraft. Fix the over heating problem and its no big deal. Put it in a fire proof box and we're all the better.

AERO - 787 No-Bleed Systems

Pretty interesting decision making process that they went through for 3% burn. As I see it, there are no bleeds on the 787. All electrical. Have no idea how it works, but that is right off of Boeing's website. Must hit the batteries pretty hard to require the switch from more traditional battery technology where all the batts have to do is start the APU and be ready for a backup role should everything else (including the RAT) fail.

As an aside, I have a small business in the radio control hobby world, and use both Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries extensively. We treat them like a ticking time bomb. Stored, transported and charged in a firesafe. I also charge them on a concrete floor away from any combustibles. I know of at least a dozen garage/house fires as a result of this technology being abused. I also have some experience with faulty cells and Lithium fires. Very hot fire and no way to put it out. Not a good thing on an airplane.

Scott


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:55 PM.


Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands