Jetblue and the PVC
03-30-2013, 07:56 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,512
Originally Posted by P-3Bubba
The company has yet to show its cards in what they're offering. The drums are beating. I can see the ALPA smoke signals rising. We have to see what the offer and changes are first. If ALPA rolls in it will be post this negotiation and a CBA is still at least 3 years away. Not to mention 3 years of management v. Pilot pleasentries during the negotiation. I'm not saying this is a deterrent to ALPA, and if the company puts a steaming turd on the table in a few weeks its time to formally organize. It will be ugly that's for sure.
If they put the giant turd on the table its too late. Get the cards and get in lab conditions now before they have the chance to take it all away.
03-30-2013, 09:53 AM
#22
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18
P3
If they put the giant turd on the table its too late. Get the cards and get in lab conditions now before they have the chance to take it all away.
If they put the giant turd on the table its too late. Get the cards and get in lab conditions now before they have the chance to take it all away.
03-30-2013, 09:56 AM
#23
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by benzoate
Is not about caving. Much the like the FSM we don't really have a say. Absent a CBA all we can do us request individual arbitration and start the "3A" process all over which has taken over 3 years.
Scope isn't as large an issue, right now, as the domestic code share and premium time give back. JetBlue is keen on raising your pay provided you allow them to domestically code share and limit your ability to make extra money. Cost neutral is the goal.
JetBlue has no intent on giving you any say on scope or code sharing. Again, call your PVC and find out for yourself.
Scope isn't as large an issue, right now, as the domestic code share and premium time give back. JetBlue is keen on raising your pay provided you allow them to domestically code share and limit your ability to make extra money. Cost neutral is the goal.
JetBlue has no intent on giving you any say on scope or code sharing. Again, call your PVC and find out for yourself.
I agree we need a CBA, but you are talking nonsense.
03-30-2013, 10:15 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 900
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
What is all this code share talk? ALPA doesn't prevent codeshares. Delta, united, AA, Hawaiian, Alaska ALL have significant domestic and international codesharing.
I agree we need a CBA, but you are talking nonsense.
I agree we need a CBA, but you are talking nonsense.
Incorrect. The last Delta contract put a limit on codesharing at least on international routes. I think they saw the writing on the wall when they realized the Delta 767 going from JFK-CDG were becoming Air France 777s via a code share. Hawaiian doesn't restrict code shares because most of them benefit THEM. Ours is a prime example. Why fly JFK-RDU or JFK-CLT when you can code share with jetBlue to do it and still just fly JFK-HNL? Your costs don't increase, but your revenue does. Alaska is more or less in the same situation.
Honestly, codeshare restrictions should be the next scope battle or we're all going to see a lot of the routes "American Carrier Airlines, operated by European Codeshare." We need code share resrictions here to keep us from going into an "alliance" type agreement with another domestic carrier(s) rather than "growing organically."
03-30-2013, 10:25 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: P-3C
Posts: 982
I disagree w/Eagle. It doesn't matter if the vote is tomorrow for ALPA. This PEA negotiation is already in motion. It's better to leverage the drive as a question mark, and not just say well, we're going union anyways so chop away at us.
03-30-2013, 10:27 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: P-3C
Posts: 982
Originally Posted by Kellwolf
Incorrect. The last Delta contract put a limit on codesharing at least on international routes. I think they saw the writing on the wall when they realized the Delta 767 going from JFK-CDG were becoming Air France 777s via a code share. Hawaiian doesn't restrict code shares because most of them benefit THEM. Ours is a prime example. Why fly JFK-RDU or JFK-CLT when you can code share with jetBlue to do it and still just fly JFK-HNL? Your costs don't increase, but your revenue does. Alaska is more or less in the same situation.
Honestly, codeshare restrictions should be the next scope battle or we're all going to see a lot of the routes "American Carrier Airlines, operated by European Codeshare." We need code share resrictions here to keep us from going into an "alliance" type agreement with another domestic carrier(s) rather than "growing organically."
Honestly, codeshare restrictions should be the next scope battle or we're all going to see a lot of the routes "American Carrier Airlines, operated by European Codeshare." We need code share resrictions here to keep us from going into an "alliance" type agreement with another domestic carrier(s) rather than "growing organically."
03-30-2013, 10:40 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
What is all this code share talk? ALPA doesn't prevent codeshares. Delta, united, AA, Hawaiian, Alaska ALL have significant domestic and international codesharing.
I agree we need a CBA, but you are talking nonsense.
I agree we need a CBA, but you are talking nonsense.
Domestic there is no limit hence Hawaiian.
Lastly unions by name don't prevent code shares. Pilot groups with bargaining power do. JBPA won't have the resources to negotiate it. ALPA will have the resources made available to the JetBlue pilot group.
Talking nonsense? Seriously!
03-30-2013, 10:43 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
What is all this code share talk? ALPA doesn't prevent codeshares. Delta, united, AA, Hawaiian, Alaska ALL have significant domestic and international codesharing.
I agree we need a CBA, but you are talking nonsense.
I agree we need a CBA, but you are talking nonsense.
Domestic there is no limit hence Hawaiian.
Lastly unions by name don't prevent code shares. Pilot groups with bargaining power do. JBPA won't have the resources to negotiate it. ALPA will have the resources made available to the JetBlue pilot group.
Talking nonsense? Seriously!
The only nonsense is JetBlue pilots who think management is protecting anything other than the bottom line at any cost.
03-30-2013, 11:12 AM
#29
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by Kellwolf
Incorrect. The last Delta contract put a limit on codesharing at least on international routes. I think they saw the writing on the wall when they realized the Delta 767 going from JFK-CDG were becoming Air France 777s via a code share. Hawaiian doesn't restrict code shares because most of them benefit THEM. Ours is a prime example. Why fly JFK-RDU or JFK-CLT when you can code share with jetBlue to do it and still just fly JFK-HNL? Your costs don't increase, but your revenue does. Alaska is more or less in the same situation.
Honestly, codeshare restrictions should be the next scope battle or we're all going to see a lot of the routes "American Carrier Airlines, operated by European Codeshare." We need code share resrictions here to keep us from going into an "alliance" type agreement with another domestic carrier(s) rather than "growing organically."
Honestly, codeshare restrictions should be the next scope battle or we're all going to see a lot of the routes "American Carrier Airlines, operated by European Codeshare." We need code share resrictions here to keep us from going into an "alliance" type agreement with another domestic carrier(s) rather than "growing organically."
I said DL, UAL, AA, Alaska and Hawaiian all have significant codesharing. I also said ALPA doesn't prevent codesharing (read the first sentence again).
How are EITHER of those statements incorrect???
I want a CBA, but we WILL have codesharing in a CBA, just as EVERY other carrier (all union, most ALPA) that I named above.
03-30-2013, 11:15 AM
#30
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by benzoate
You need to read the 5 documents. Code sharing on international routes is allowed for a 2 year period at which the pilot group, via the PVC, is supposed to poll the pilots and gauge in continuing the code share.
Domestic there is no limit hence Hawaiian.
Lastly unions by name don't prevent code shares. Pilot groups with bargaining power do. JBPA won't have the resources to negotiate it. ALPA will have the resources made available to the JetBlue pilot group.
Talking nonsense? Seriously!
Domestic there is no limit hence Hawaiian.
Lastly unions by name don't prevent code shares. Pilot groups with bargaining power do. JBPA won't have the resources to negotiate it. ALPA will have the resources made available to the JetBlue pilot group.
Talking nonsense? Seriously!
Yes, nonsense.
Limit it, maybe. Prevent it, NO WAY. You are full of SHI%%%%
