Dealing with SCABS...
 

Have you ever had to fly with a scab:eek:? If so, what did you say to them and how did the flight go? How do you deal with these guys/gals?:D

Do your job and be professional. Don't let someone else's past cause you to put your ticket or passenger's lives in danger because you won't talk to them or breakdown communication in the cockpit. What you do on the layover is an entirely different story. If you are sure that person is a SCAB, you could put them on your no-fly list or just call in sick. Good luck.

Dealing with SCABS...
 

These days, people don't even know what "scab" means. I hear that word thrown around pretty loosely.

Yep, every NWA pilot crossed the picket line when their mechanics were on strike. Does that mean all NWA pilots are scabs?

Keep it dry, try not to hit the same spot again until it heals, try not to remove it prematurely, let it fall by itself. I recommend cacao cream to help with skin discoloration.

That is the stance the dear union has taken as long as they pay their dues!

BTW: Try not to put your passengers at risk by starting your trip on an adversarial cockpit atmosphere. If you have issues with it, call in sick or explain to the schedulers that you should be removed from that trip due to safety. Just a thought.

Not enough sick time to avoid them when I was a 757 FO. My FO seniority lined up perfect with scab CA seniority. If I was Native American, I would be called "flys with scabs."

A scab is someone who crosses a legal strike or accepts less than union wages.

The main thing to do is not be their friend. Kinda a sterile cockpit inflight and no hanging out at the layover.

No. because the mechanic's union told the pilot's union it was OK for the pilots to report for work. Now, if the pilots started wrenching on planes, then yes, they would have been scabs.

Crossing a picket line means doing the actual work a striking union member would have been doing. The FAs also showed up for work with the OK from the mechanic's union.

That's a new twist on the definition.

As you know, our Union's President (Prater, or was it Woerth ?) welcomed the Continental scabs back into the Union with cake and a party. Didn't seem to bug him too much.

I have flown with one scab. He was a miserable SOB, in fact the only pilot I've not gotten along with in nearly 25 years of flying multi crew aircraft. He later tuned over a new leaf, got back into ALPA and served well as a Committee Chair. Turned out to be a good guy in the long run.

.............

Depends.... read Jack London. There is a mindset, that is anti capitalist, that says you don't keep undercutting... when does it end? And we see this talk on this forum.. about the race to the bottom in the pilot profession.....

ALPA wasn't going to reject ALL of CAL coming back on the scab issue. The CAL in house union made scabs valid members and by US Labor law, when a union takes over another they have to accept all members...

SCABS don't turn over a new leaf... and CAL ALPA should be chided for allowing SCABS into committee positions.... that is like saying a pedophile turned over a new leaf and its ok to let him take your kid to the park..... probably worse than eating cake with scabs is letting scabs serve in ALPA positions...

After all these years, let’s see how many (forget the Amerijet and Spirit strikes) after EAL went on strike??? 24 years??? why the query? This topic has been covered over the years too. Clearly, based on the aircraft you've flown, assuming you are a line captain, you can't be a virgin at having less than desirables of any ilk in your right seat.

Anyway, regardless of who you are paired up with... Keep it professional, keep it safe and don’t compromise your position. At the end of the day, you it is not incumbent upon you to have a beer or dinner whilst on layovers with any undesirable, regardless of their ilk, you are paired with during your sequence.

I don't believe that falls into the definition of "scab." Using that definition, then, would make Jetblue and Virgin America pilots scabs.

Is it bad for industry, definitely.. but not down to the same level as crossing a picket line.

Actually there have been several RLA strikes since Eastern.
Facts.......RLA Strikes since I began in the industry

Continental Pilots (ALPA almost 2 years) 1984
Pan Am (CSA for 1 day) 1984
Alaska Mechanics (IAM 92 days) 1985
United Pilots (ALPA 29 days) 1985
TWA FA's (72 days) 1986

RLA Strikes Since 1989 Eastern:

Eastern IAM supported by Pilots (ALPA for 2 years) in 1989
USair Mechanics (IAM for 5 days) in 1993 USAir MEC opted not to support
American Flight Attendants (APFA for 5 days) in 1994
American Pilots (1/2 (5 days) hour) 1997
ComAir Pilot Strike (89 days) 1998
Skyway Airlines (90 min) 1998
Northwest Pilots (ALPA 15 days) 1998
Polar Pilots (17 Days) 2000
Northwest Mechanics (AMFA for 416 days) 2005
World Airways 2006
Amerijet Pilots (IBT for 17 days) 2006
Spirit Air Pilot (ALPA for 5 days) 2010

This whole thread causes the question; what is the definition of "Union wage" in the airline industry? (Not at you aa73) I don't quite understand the logic of tying a specific group wage to whether or not the group as a whole would be considered "scabs".

One of the above posters had it right. The term is thrown around way too loosely.

S

This is a book that my kid had in his preschool. It might offer you some advice. I think it's available on Amazon. :D

http://www.amazon.com/All-About-Scab...ll+about+scabs

This really cracks me up. Of course he would become a good union guy. He crossed a line and got rewarded with a job that he couldn't have gotten in the first place and now wants the union to protect that job so it doesn't happen to him.

Scabs have been called many things by many people during the course of labor history but Jack London’s description of the scab, “written with barbed wire on sandpaper,” easily dwarfs all others.


“After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, the vampire, He had some awful substance left with which He made a scab.


A scab is a two-legged animal with a cork-screw soul, a water-logged brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.


When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the Devil shuts the gates of Hell to keep him out.


No man has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas Iscariot was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not.


Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas Iscariot sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British Army. The modern strikebreaker sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children and his fellow men for an unfulfilled promise from his employer, trust or corporation.


Esau was a traitor to himself: Judas Iscariot was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a strikebreaker is a traitor to his God, his country, his wife, his family and his class.”

Definition: scab

Part of Speech Definition
Noun 1. Someone who works (or provides workers) during a strike.[Wordnet]
2. The crustlike surface of a healing skin lesion.[Wordnet]
3. An incrustation over a sore, wound, vesicle, or pustule, formed by the drying up of the discharge from the diseased part.[Websters]
4. The itch in man; also, the scurvy.[Websters]
5. The mange, esp. when it appears on sheep.[Websters]
6. A disease of potatoes producing pits in their surface, caused by a minute fungus (Tiburcinia Scabies).[Websters]
7. A slight irregular protuberance which defaces the surface of a casting, caused by the breaking away of a part of the mold.[Websters]
8. A mean, dirty, paltry fellow.[Websters]
9. A nickname for a workman who engages for lower wages than are fixed by the trades unions; also, for one who takes the place of a workman on a strike.[Websters].
Verb 1. Form a scab; "the wounds will eventually scab".[Wordnet]
2. Take the place of work of someone on strike.[Wordnet]
3. To become covered with a scab; as, the wound scabbed over.[Websters]
4. Base verb from the following inflections: scabbing, scabbed, scabs, scabber, scabbers, scabbingly and scabbedly.[Eve - graph theoretic]


1: Noun. Source: Linguistic 101 students at the University of Oregon. Definition: A person who works non-union. Context: Used by union construction workers to talk about the non-union workers. Social Source: Construction Workers. Source: Compiled by The University of Oregon. (additional references)
2: Noun. Source: Linguistic 101 students at the University of Oregon. Definition: A scab is a worker, typically a non-union employee, that works in place of a striking worker. Context: This term would be used by union employees, during a strike, to refer to replacement workers. Social Source: SEIU-OPEU Local 085 Union Members. Source: Compiled by The University of Oregon. (additional references)
Slang in 1811 SCAB. A worthless man or woman. Source: 1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue.
Wiktionary 1: [Noun] (botany) Any one of various more or less destructive fungus diseases attacking cultivated plants, and forming dark-colored crustlike spots. (references)
2: [Noun] (colloquial or obsolete) The scabies. (references)
3: [Noun] (founding) A slight irregular protuberance which defaces the surface of a casting, caused by the breaking away of a part of the mold. (references)
4: [Noun] (slang) A strikebreaker. (references)
5: [Noun] (slang) A worker who works for less than the rate fixed by the trade union. (references)
6: [Noun] A mean, dirty, paltry fellow. (references)
7: [Noun] An incrustation over a sore, wound, vesicle, or pustule, formed during healing. (references)
8: [Noun] Several different diseases of potatoes producing pits and other damage on their surface, caused by Streptomyces -bacteria. (references)
9: [Noun] Short form for common scab, a relatively harmless variety of scab caused by Streptomyces scabies. (references)
10: [Noun] The mange, especially when it appears on sheep. 1882: Scab was the terror of the sheep farmer, and the peril of his calling. � James Edwin Thorold Rogers, A History of Agriculture and Prices in England, Volume 4, p. 306. (references)
11: [Verb] (intransitive) To act as strikebreaker. (references)
12: [Verb] (intransitive) To get covered by a scab. (references)

Actually, it is part of the definition of a scab. Most choose to ignore that part.

What really bothers me with the CAL scabs is that they crossed in 1983-5, started the IACP, became ALPA, were forgiven, and now can hold widebody captain positions and union positions.

What does this tell the younger generation of pilots?

"Go ahead and cross a picket line, it will work out well and there is no downside." :mad:

Makes most of us sick to read this.

Strike will be unlikely at the Big 3.....

Otto Pilot,

You and I are on the same page. I think based on the definitions you provided, the official meaning is someone who crosses a picket line, whereas the one who engages in lower than union wages is more slangy and possibly a bit of a stretch.

If we went with the slangy term, again - we'd be calling JB and VA pilots scabs.

Again - both actions are incredibly harmful to the profession... but the argument can be made that crossing a picket line is MUCH lower and more despicable than "working for less than union wages" - the latter of which many union and non-union airlines have engaged over the last several years.

The IACP was started by pilots who included some scabs and allowed them to be members. When ALPA and the IACP merged ALPA had to accept all IACP members as their members. CAL scabs are ALPA members because of the IACP.

Jack London was an avowed Marxist and founder of the Humanist movement in America

and were in leadership in the early 2002 when they merged.
not saying it isn't awkward but they did bring the pilots back in.

Here's all I gotta say about this.. I was in freakin middle school when all that went down at CAL. My badge says United now and we will all soon wear the same uniform.. I treat every capt on a case by case.. Some of them are really decent guys and some are effin weirdos. I don't condone what they did, but it's not my business to bring up some bs from 1983 with them. Just take each guy one at a time and enjoy your job, guys. If a capt is pretty bad, put him on your no fly or call in sick like the others said. Usually the bad ones are the dorks who find ways not to pay dues nowadays... I think that's messed up and I have one of those guys on my no fly.

You clowns who get all up in arms about this need to calm down if you weren't actually there on the damn picket line back in 83.. We had 99% on the strike vote and I believe we would of had ZERO problems if we struck here and NOW in 2013. Great! can we all move on with our lives now?!

If it's about lower wages you need to include the senior FedEx and UPS pilots for their pay rates back in the 1980's. And then there's the commuter pilots. And the A- pay scalers. And the B scalers.

Where does it stop???

NO. I don't care when any scab crossed a picket line. It's never over. Sorry, a scab is a scab til death. Never forget, never forgive.

I agree, I really do..

I'm just so tired of hearing you certain guys talk about it so much.. I sit over there in my seat shaking my head. They are all gonna be gone in 5 years or so...I just don't give a eff anymore to talk about it

Wow the 99% strike vote and you think that would have gone just fine? Then the same group passes a crappy contract because the fear factor? 99% is pretty easy when you know you won't actually have to go on strike. This collective group would get slaughtered.

Babaganoush, if you're reading this you'll appreciate the menu of life option.

The menu of life is limited for first officers who have fly with those they have ill will towards. Quit and get a job elsewhere where one feels this will not be an issue. The other, do your job as you are expected to. Be a contributing member towards the entire crew. At the end of your duty day, go to the hotel, lock yourself in your room, scream into your pillow, go to sleep, wake up the next morning, report for work, and do your job as your D/O and captain expect you to do. Place the bloke on your personal no fly list when you return to base.

For captains, perhaps a bit more latitude. Quit and get a job elsewhere where one feels this will not be an issue. Make a name for yourself with scheduling by calling in sick every time you are paired with any who you feel that you do not wish to fly with. Otherwise, show up for work, act professional towards all your crewmembers, and run a safe trip. At the end of the day, you can go to the hotel, lock yourself in your room, scream into your pillow, go to sleep, wake up the next morning, report for work, and continue to do your job as you are expected to do by your D/O. Place the bloke on your personal no fly list when you return to base.

Better question, what does it say about the "older" generation of pilots?

You know, the ones that look down on the "regional" pilots for how they "ruin the career" blah blah blah etc etc etc............

"If a man builds a thousand bridges and sucks one d**k, they don't call him a bridge-builder... they call him a c**ksucker."