turbojet28

It did look a little nastier late last night, but still didn't seem like something that really would've been a huge deal. Maybe they are trying to jump the gun a little earlier after the December fiasco?

Mugatu

Yeah, maybe a little gun shy now. Oh well.

Missed Appch

Amen. Just absolutely ridiculous.

I also have extremely low expectations in regards to our first TA. I don't think we're going to see anything soon. At least worthy of a yes vote. And when we do get to see it, it better have a whole lot of retro.

NWSteeringArmer

[QUOTE=ColdWhiskey;2286545]I know there is a lot of frustration. There will be a TA someday. I am of the belief that it will be later, rather than sooner.

It would appear later rather sooner is a common thought but the only thing they really have going for them is the promise of a not too long upgrade time... 3-4 years to get into the left seat isn't bad... problem is we're gonna have what? 2400-2500 pilots for 130 something airplanes? We have almost 1100 right now... there are people that have passed upgrade, some attrition and very few retirements... so to be generous, the next 250 pilots hired will have a shot at upgrade in a reasonable amount of time... that means in a year, everyone hired will be stuck in the right seat for a while... compound that with the fact that everyone else is hiring into a better contract and the pilot "shortage" really hits hard here... they want all those airplanes in the air so they can continue to print money... the only way they're going to attract anyone a year from now is money and work rules... might be sooner than we think

AtlCSIP

I'll be in Denver this week. Is there any way to stop in and talk to someone (Chief Pilot, etc...) while I am there? App in for a long time, but crickets. PM if necessary.

DENpilot

Our previous union leaders had no clue what they were doing. They were company yes-men. Unfortunately, a couple still are today. You can add the 10 year nonsense to the weak language in LOA 67, the ridiculous addition after the fact of the A321 to existing rates, and the unprecedented half pay deadheads. I might be able to forgive these guys, but they will vehemently defend these things.

dracir1

Company yes men?

What data would you like to share to support that?

Were you around when the company was hours away from closing the doors?

DENpilot

I get so sick of hearing that with no data to back that up. That is what management said, and maybe they were telling the truth, or maybe they were lying like usual. Either way, they gave the farm away and then some.

Oh and BTW, FAPA invest ignores the fact that half the pilot group is working under these concessions and will get nothing. I will ***** slap the next captain that tells me what they're going to do with their big payday. (which fortunately hasn't happened in the last year, now that they're realizing it isn't coming as soon or going to be as big as they hoped.)

Mugatu

Wow, there's a sensitive spot. The reason you're not included with FAPAInvest is because you were not here. There is no new hire contribution to FAPAInvest because you knew exactly what your pay was going to be when you got hired. Pretty simple. We have been working under a bad contract much longer than you so I'm not sure why you're so upset. Let the process work itself out and when the day a strike comes we will all have fun.

As far as captains talking about FAPAInvest to their FO's, yes, I can see that as quite annoying. Just tell them "you realize I'm not a part of FAPAInvest, don't you." That should politely shut them up pretty quick.

And you're right if it makes you feel better, FAPAInvest is nothing more than a promise. That's all it is.

dracir1

Data. A simple thing huh? It is what I was requesting from you - which you did not provide.

In terms of the company closing, I guess you're correct in saying that is what was "said." Nobody really knows unless you were actually in the big bosses office the day it was discussed. And I understand that's what F9 told you but why don't you believe FAPA? Is it your premise that pilots (actual pilots flying the line) who were part of FAPA at the time willfully gave away "the farm" as you call it, for no other reason then they are just weak and didn't want to negotiate? That these guys would cut their own throats in pay and terms because they are lazy? Keep in mind, these same weak, feable guys are still here - living through this concessionary contract. The same guys are sharing the cockpit w/ you now and are charged w/ your safety. The same guys are listening to you complain about a contract that you have no idea of the reasons why it is what it is.

Two inputs for you:

One, if this contract is SO bad, why don't you volunteer to be on the negotiating committee. That way, we ALL get the benefit of your superior knowledge and bravery in standing up to the company.

Second, go back and read this forum (or at least talk to someone who was around back then). Ask them their take. Get to real heart of the matter concerning why the contract is the way that it is. Keep in mind that it was negotiated w/ the PRIOR owner and management team - not Indigo. Also, you CAN verify for yourself the amount of money this company was losing at the time and do the math of how long it could afford to stay in business. A simple google search away. Then, this data that you speak of, you will have.

If you are one of our pilots, be a part of the solution...