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Bottom of SWA or bottom of new American?

Old 11-19-2013, 01:35 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Do you think everyone at the Legacy airlines sits on reserve??

Typically reserve coverage is only 20% of each category, that means 80% of the pilots are line holders. And with a wide variety of fleets, pilots can pick and choose their relative seniority, to either be junior at a higher pay rate, or get senior and off reserve. This month our 777 reserve lines are paying 82 hours, and lots of very senior guys bid to be on reserve, they know they won't fly much, if at all, and still get 82 hours.

Our trip rig is 5:15 day minimum, so to get to 75 hours they'd have to fly about 14 days, which is why International type trips go senior to our domestic, they fly more hours per day, so you are gone less days to get the same hours...and when you go to the Hotel, it's a nicer hotel in a nicer city and for 24 hours, vs. 9-10 hours at the typical Airport Holiday Inn. Back in the Good Old Days, the most senior trip was on the L1011 out of ATL, doing a San Juan turn, it was about 8 hours block, you flew it 10 days a month for 80 hours pay and slept in your own bed every night. It went very senior!

SWA has always been more efficient on a per day flying basis, because they only fly one airplane type, so everyone is qualified on every airplane, so there's no need to deadhead in an A320 Crew on a MD88 to cover a mechanical, etc. So you average more flying per day, vs. a Legacy hub and spoke type operation with many different fleets, all sitting around ATL or DEN or ORD waiting for their type of aircraft to arrive.

That's a very ineficient use of the pilot's time. We call them "Productivity Breaks", when we get stuck in the hub for 3 hours waiting for our airplane to arrive. That crap gets old fast, which is why most guys go to Int. as soon as they can hold it.

I said a long time ago, if Delta wanted to match SW in terms of efficient, they should just buy 500 737's for domestic flying and another 200 767ER's or 787's for International flying, but they'd also be able to get by with 2,000 fewer pilots to cover the same block hours.

Life is about choices, an all 737 airline doesn't give you much choice, but hey, who wants to get paid to fly to Rome and layover anyway?
I don't know about the nicer hotel part. When it comes to the quality of the room/bedding/bathrooms I think they are very inferior. The beds and bathrooms outright suck when compared to your average Westin, Crown, Doubletree, etc. Yes it's cool being in Paris, Singapore, Rome, Frankfurt etc, but the hotels are no where near the quality of our good domestic hotel chains. Been to AMS lately? It's like sleeping on a cot and if you want a full/queen size you have to put your two twin size cots together.
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:32 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by itsokimapilot View Post
I've flown around the world and had some great crew rests. A 24 hour turn is about the worst thing for your body. Give me 16 or 36 hours off. At least then I can get some rest when I land and not fight my body to stay awake to get a good night's sleep before the next incredibly boring 10 hour leg. Those of you that enjoy crossing multiple time zones and seeing another European city with a big church in the square and having a coffee or beer in the plaza, good for you. Been there, done that. I'd much rather fly in the ol US of A and hit BW3s and be able to use my cell phone to talk to the kids every night. I'm sure that international travel suits some. If you haven't done it before, don't let the old heads on here fill your brains with all the fluff. I may be in the minority on this board, but I'm really looking forward to primarily domestic flying in this next career.
I had a blast flying the C17. I guessing (hoping?) that flying international is a considerably more civilized endeaver. Considering the duty restrictions, as compared to AMC, I would expect to land significantly better rested.

Just a thought.

I'll get a job, before I start complaining about it.
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:57 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by itsokimapilot View Post
Outside observation (zero 121 experience)... Using round numbers for ease of my caveman math.

American Airlines-Furloughed pilots and still bringing them back. I have friends that were hired in 1999-2000. They still can't hold WB FO on a schedule they want. Capt upgrade? No time soon. Roughly, 12,000 pilots on property, retiring at about 600/year on average over the next 10 years equals five percent attrition annually. Whens the next economic downturn going to cause them to furlough again? I don't see any new hire upgrading to Capt in the next 10 years.

Mandatory retirements in the next 10 yrs - approx. 3700 or 48% at AA. Much less than your 5%.
Junior Captain is 58% at the junior base.
With a static airline and EVERYONE stays to 65 the junior guys on property are looking at upgrading in 10-11 yrs.

First 1998 upgrades recently. Unfortunately only 500 mandatory retirements in the next 4 yrs which doesn't help the 1999-2001 hires that much.

Furloughs due to the next economic downturn? When's that coming? In 2017 retirements are 184. 2018 - 293. 2019 - 410. At some point retirements, and the subsequent training bubble, will hopefully make furloughs some the new guys won't have to worry about.
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Old 11-19-2013, 03:07 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Swedish Blender View Post
I do know several at SWA that were hired 06-07 who used to drink the juice until the AirTran merger happened. None of them are happy to say the least.
I know pilots EVERYWHERE that are not happy to say the least.

Pilots are gonna b1tch no matter what. Chances are, those same pilots could have been hired anywhere else and STILL b1tched.

You give most pilots a bag a money and it'd be too heavy for them to carry.
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Old 11-19-2013, 03:35 PM
  #125  
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For those who love 4 legs a day and all that exciting stick time, or especially those that compare only pay...

When on an augmented crew, doing the long haul stuff, you get to do something really cool. You can stand up, say "I'll see you in four hours." Exit the cockpit. Climb into a quiet bunk, and snooze, read, or listen to music. And get paid $150 to $275 an hour to do so. I flew the 737 for 10 years, and I don't remember any FAA approved crew bunk, or legal sleep at all for that matter!

No one flies 10 hours continually on a 777. It's all broken up into chunks of 2.5 to 4.5 hours.

In the end, everyone's different. I've run into many guys at AA who hate long haul. But every one of them bids turns if they can hold them. I've never run into a guy who prefers 4 legs a day, and bids them, when another option is available.
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Old 11-19-2013, 03:42 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by ForeverFO View Post
Exit the cockpit. Climb into a quiet bunk, and snooze,

Again, it comes down to personal preference, that ^ sounds absolutely miserable.........

I'm sure Sliceback will tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because I've never done it, lol. Some things you don't need to experience to know you wouldn't like. No reason to get offended for those who prefer it, not everyone does
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Old 11-19-2013, 03:50 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs View Post
Again, it comes down to personal preference, that ^ sounds absolutely miserable.........
I'm with ya. I hope to eventually sample long haul flying myself and perhaps I'll like it a lot; I think the creme of the crop international trips would be hard to hate despite some weird hours.

But I have no interest whatsoever in doing anything such as EWR-DUB...all nighter followed by a little nap and then wake up at 1AM home time and fly back? What is the point???
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Old 11-19-2013, 03:53 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs View Post
Again, it comes down to personal preference, that ^ sounds absolutely miserable.........
Sleeping, reading, watching a movie, and being paid to do it sounds miserable? Oh Kay.

You've completely lost me. What do you do at home, MS flight simulator?
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Old 11-19-2013, 03:56 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by ForeverFO View Post
Sleeping, reading, watching a movie, and being paid to do it sounds miserable? Oh Kay.

You've completely lost me. What do you do at home, MS flight simulator?
Slinging insults because I don't envy your ability to read a magazine at work, or sleep in a "bunk"? You have to be kidding me, haha.
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:00 PM
  #130  
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Count me in as a "long haul hater." Did it for four years - hands down the worst I've ever felt in my entire career. While the layovers were awesome, I was constantly tired. Constantly. Even when I got home, it would take me a good two days to fully recuperate, then Right back at it again. Ugh.

I could never sleep well in a crew rest seat. DEFINITELY could never sleep well in Europe either.

A typical Europe trip for me went something like this:

Leave on day 1 in the evening. No sleep in the crew rest seat (too early.) Arrive in Europe in the AM. Get to hotel, too noisy/restless to sleep even though it's 2 am body time. Give up after 3 hours and go out to dinner with crew. Get back to room around midnight and try to sleep - impossible: it's only 6pm body time. End up staying awake until 5am local, finally drift off only to awaken 2 hours later for pickup. Take off, now I can't sleep again on my break - too loud in the cabin, turbulence, etc.

Just shoot me!

No thanks...you senior bubbas can fight over that stuff. Not to mention, the older you get, the more you should be staying AWAY from long haul flying. It's the worst thing for your body at that age! Do it while young. As you get older/more senior, bid back to domestic turns. No time zones, home every night = longer healthier life.

I am supposed to be #12 at AA at retirement (pre merger)... I plan to be one of those double-digit seniority captains flying domestic turns only!

As an example, I have decided to leave 75/76 international and got a bid back to DCA 737 Domestic. I just can't hang with the big boys... ;-)) as funny as it seems, I look forward to no more customs, strange security, easy 3 leg days through the hubs, no more screwed up ATC, HF radios, etc...

Just one man's opinion... I know I'm in the minority, but glad I have a choice.
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